Lycoming Mandatory SB (crankshaft, again, and more of 'em)

[f1rocket]

Originally Posted by Ola

I bet if Toyota (or whatever) would, they could.

Honda tried and they couldn't. Why? They can't sell enough of them to make a profit.

You can rant and rave about the cost of these dinosours but who else is going to build maybe 10,000 - 20,000 engines a year and face that kind of liability? Economics, plain and simple, are the reasons these things don't change much. When you weight the cost/benefit equation, it just makes more sense to sell the same thing rather than change it significantly.

If I understand the problem, it had to do with the metallurgy of the cranks, not the design.

[cjensen]

metallurgy seems to be the root cause a lot with crank and cylinder/piston problems. how come whoever lyc is having forge the parts can't get it right (i don't think they forge their own if i remember correctly). i think this is a similar problem the big lycs faced a few years ago. we sell a lot of malibu's and everyone askes about the lycoming (malibu mirage) crank AD. didn't they say it was metallurgy in those affected engines as well? where's the quality control?

[Rupester]

I second the sentiments of RV6ejguy. The Subarus have been getting more and more interesting ... this "breech loading" of thousands of owners by Lyco is just what i need to make a tough decision easier.

[cjensen]

Originally Posted by Rupester

I second the sentiments of RV6ejguy. The Subarus have been getting more and more interesting ... this "breech loading" of thousands of owners by Lyco is just what i need to make a tough decision easier.

a soobie is just what you need terry! i'm right there with ya on your thoughts of making the engine choice.

[Mike S]

f I understand the problem, it had to do with the metallurgy of the cranks, not the design.
__________________
Randy

Sorry Randy, the REAL problem is LAWYERS and LAWSUITS.

Mike

[osxuser]

The problem is definitely not the design. We have a 1969 vintage lycoming O-360A1A in our '68 Cardinal. It has never been overhaulled, the cylinders have never been off it. When we bought the airplane we had to do the oil pump AD on the engine because it hadn't been annualled in a 12 years. In August 2002 it had 950ish hours on it. We have have put an additional 550 tach hours on it and it still runs great. It's carburated, but with the CS prop we can get it down to about 7.5GPH on a long haul trip (high and lean). The only difference between this engine and the new lycomings made today, is back then everything Lycoming made was in-house. There were no problems with QC because it was all in-house. I fully expect when we do overhaul this engine, to put new cylinders on it, reuse the crank and case. Probably replace the Cam, not really sure on that, but it's old so it probably needs it.

With the quality of this old engine being what it is, and all the problems Lycoming has had with new engines. I feel that buying up a core and rebuilding it would be a much better option than a factory new. At least then you know what is in it. Also for those who are doing home-grown rebuilds, note all the S/N's of all the parts that go into the engine, so when **** like this comes up, the people working on the airplane will have something to go by, instead of having to crack the cases to figure it out.

[N713R]

Just food for though guys, I am a rotary engine guy, and while I am not going to try to convert you all, (you'll likely all come around sooner or later anyway) I have to say, Experimental aircraft are just that, experimental, put in a Subaru or a Mazda, or whatever. It will save you a fortune in the long run.
Are you aware, I can rebuild my engine twice for the cost of ONE jug on a Lycoming. Now, don't get me wrong, Lycoming has served aviation well for MANY years, but why wouldn't Lycoming want to update their engines, some say because it works so well. Anyone out there ever made it to TBO with out some sort of major problem, a cylinder, a piston, rings, an AD? ANYONE even hear about someone that made it close. Not me. Now, why would lycoming not update their engine, and bring it into reasonably current technology. Hmm, some would argue certification costs too much. Perhaps, but a multi-billion dollar company like Textron Lycoming could not afford it? Unlikely. How many engines does Lycoming sell in a year? 5-10,000 tops? How many parts does Lycoming sell in a year? Got to be in the 100 millions+. Now we are onto something. What does it cost for Lycoming to make a cylinder jug? lets say for the sake of arguement it is $200 per. (and I would say that is pretty generous on our part) They sell them for what 14-1600 dollars per. Wow, that is a pretty good profit margin. If I sold alot more parts than engines, and by LAW my customers couldn't put any other parts on their engines, Hmm, I probably wouldn't change my design much either. The unfortunate thing is, as "experimenters" we have the option to do something different, but many choose not too. Their choice, but seems silly to me. Guess some have far more money to give to big business than I do.
Just some of what goes through my head in a minutes time.

N713R

[jcoloccia]

Originally Posted by N713R

The unfortunate thing is, as "experimenters" we have the option to do something different, but many choose not too.

Actually, some of us just want inverted fuel/oil, a hydraulic prop and a more or less complete FWF package. Are you listening, Jan E.? I'm still waiting

[Mel]

I don't know how people where you live treat Lycomings, but mine had 2500 hours TTSN when I installed it on my -6. I flew it another 315 hours. When I tore it down for overhaul it had a total of 2815 trouble free hours and all parts were within service limits. The O-320 series is famous for making TBO and then some.
Mel...DAR

[tomtana59911]

RV6 guy,I agree with you,We can buy a whole new block and heads for what a new lyco crank cost.Oil is 2.50 qt auto gas 2.50 gal an oil change costs 15 bucks nicer cabin heat,no preheating in winter,no mixture to deal with no carb ice,no shock cooling slightly better fuel consumption and super quiet,only downfall I have found is slightly higher insurance.
I have had 2 lycos in spam cans good engines but it is time for something better!

Tom rv9
NSI 2.5(225 hrs since june)