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03-11-2011, 06:00 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,747
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http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publi...6/aim0604.html
The above link describes lost comm better than I could. However, in my experience, I have never seen nor heard of a full comm out IFR aircraft. Many times I have seen partial failure where the aircraft can still hear ATC. I know this because I can request the aircraft to IDENT to acknowledge. If you are recieving ATC instructions and complying then essentially it is not a lost comm situation. You are merely following instructions without replying in the normal manner. If there is a true lost comm event....follow the above guidance and rest assured that ATC will be clearing your path and trying to anticipate your next move.
As far as what equipment you should or shouldn't invest in...well, if ANYONE knew the answer to that I would think he would be a very rich man. As to ILS vs GPS, I don't think you would interupt traffic flow into the busier airports. At my airport, and i am guessing most others, the ILS and GPS course are the same so I don't really care which approach you are flying.
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03-12-2011, 12:09 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: KCCB
Posts: 195
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First contact with another controller in route.
This question might have been asked and I missed it if that is the case my apologies.
It is more of a in route question. First contact with a tower seems clear to me.
My fist contact with ATC ( SoCal usally) I use "Experimental N64gh" (my understanding of the AIM that is the correct procedure). With my next call (after they talk to me) I say "64GH is a RV6 ...". If I do not clarify they usually ask. Then I just use "RV 64GH". My question is when they hand me off to the next guy/gal (flight following for example) do I just say "RV 64GH" (what I usually do) or start with "Experimental" again?
Only had one minor problem when dropping the "Experimental". I was handed off and like I usually do I just used "RV 64GH" with my first call to the next controller. He came back with "O so you are not an Experimental any more?". Hard to tell if he was mad, kidding or what because for the rest of the time I was with him he was real helpful. That was a couple years ago. However after that I sometimes wonder what is correct.
A side note for some reason RV and 64GH do not go together to well. Almost every flight with flight following at some point there is confusion as what the heck I am. At that point I usually go go back to "Experimental 64GH is a RV6". I might have just answered my own question. Any way what do the controller say?
__________________
Mike Divan
N64GH - RV6,flying 
Once an Airman always an Airman (SSgt 78-82)
FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS!
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03-12-2011, 12:31 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,768
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The "EXPERIMENTAL" statement is only required when landing at or departing an airport with an operational control tower. And then only on the initial call-up.
It is NOT required for en-route communications.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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03-12-2011, 12:42 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: West Linn, Oregon
Posts: 1,351
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So taking that one step further, if on IFR or Flight Following and HANDED off to the landing airport, is experimental still needed in the call sign initially since there was a controller hand off?
__________________
CharlieWaffles - But you can call me " Mark"
RV-10
N928MT
Flying - AKA Still Tinkering
Build Project Site
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03-12-2011, 02:04 PM
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
Posts: 879
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FSS and ATC know about RVs
RV is an official aircraft type designator, so I just use that (no experimental) and have never had a problem, either while IFR or at a controlled airport.
__________________
Dennis Glaeser CFII
Rochester Hills, MI
RV-7A - Eggenfellner H6, GRT Sport ES, EIS4000, 300XL, SL30, TT Gemini, PMA6000, AK950L, GT320,
uAvionixEcho ADSB in/out with GRT Safe Fly GPS
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03-12-2011, 03:58 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,747
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I am not certain of any requirement to identify yourself as an experimental. There are no specific rules concerning experimentals for the controller so I dont find it particularly useful. But I DO know how any plane should make initial and subsequent calls. Either state "type" or "November" but NOT both. Skyhawk12345 or November 12345 works. Since Cessna has names for the specific models like skyhawk or skylane that is helpful but RVs do not so "experimental" is sufficient, ie November 101RV or experimental 101RV.
You'd be surprised at how many controllers do not know the difference between many types of aircraft. The controller is more concerned about wether you are a single, twin, or jet. They also care about weight class. Other than that they rarely care what type experimental you are unless they are the enthusiast/pilot type and then they only want to know out of personal curiosity.
Last edited by tkatc : 03-12-2011 at 04:02 PM.
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03-13-2011, 05:38 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
Posts: 7,840
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And sometimes....
....have asked me if the "little" wheel was in the front or back!  when I had my -6A...Really!
Thanks,
__________________
Pierre Smith
RV-10, 510 TT
RV6A (Sojourner) 180 HP, Catto 3 Bl (502Hrs), gone...and already missed
Air Tractor AT 502B PT 6-15 Sold
Air Tractor 402 PT-6-20 Sold
EAA Flight Advisor/CFI/Tech Counselor
Louisville, Ga
It's never skill or craftsmanship that completes airplanes, it's the will to do so,
Patrick Kenny, EAA 275132
Dues gladly paid!
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03-13-2011, 03:04 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Lake City, FL
Posts: 102
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Mel is right. Check your limitations. Mine says that I have to notify control towers that I am experimental. It also says that if I file IFR I have to also put a notification in the remarks section of the flight plan.
Dan
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03-13-2011, 06:27 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,747
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Ok...I did some research. Yes, you have to identify yourself as experimental to operating control towers. Period.
Now, my view, I am responsible for the safe and expeditious flow of air traffic. Why I need to know it is experimental is beyond me. I take no other precautions as a result. If I am unsure of your weight class and the situation calls for increased wake turbulence separation, I will simply err on the side of caution. There are no special rules I have to abide by because the aircraft is experimental.
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03-14-2011, 12:20 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Anaheim, Ca
Posts: 87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkatc
Ok...I did some research. Yes, you have to identify yourself as experimental to operating control towers. Period.
Now, my view, I am responsible for the safe and expeditious flow of air traffic..........There are no special rules I have to abide by because the aircraft is experimental.
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Per this quote from the ATC Handbook, 7110.65, you are authorized to provide special handling if required due to the experimental nature of some aircraft. Granted, RVs are like production aircraft and normal ops do not require special handling.
9-2-4. EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS
a. When notified that an experimental aircraft requires special handling:
NOTE-
14 CFR Section 91.319(d)(3) requires that each person operating an aircraft with an experimental certificate shall notify the control tower of the experimental nature of the aircraft when operating into or out of airports with operating control towers.
1. Clear the aircraft according to pilot requests as traffic permits and if not contrary to ATC procedures.
2. Once approved, do not ask the pilot to deviate from a planned action except to preclude an emergency situation.
b. At locations where volume or complexity of experimental aircraft operations warrant, a letter of agreement may be consummated between the facility and operator.
__________________
Mark Beattie
Anaheim, Ca.
RV6 fuselage in work
N642ML reserved
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