Is anyone using the LS1 successfully?

Cobrala · #1 06-17-2010, 02:41 AM

Hello VAF Im a long time reader first time poster but I have a question. I see a disturbing trend with LS1 conversions for RV-10. Has anyone actually successfully completed and flown an LS1/LS2/LS7 etc for more than 200 hours? I would first like to say I am glad to know that the pilots and families are ok but all the LS conversions I have seen on this site and youtube have ended in emergencies; fire, power loss, off airport forced landings etc. Has anyone had long term success with this engine?

pierre smith · #2 06-17-2010, 04:34 AM

...Vincent,

A friend of mine will probably chime in here today, but yes, there are successful installs, tho' not many and I'm not sure if Todd had over 200 hours on his.

There are quite a few Belted-air powered RV's...and over 300 installs...it's the V-6 Chevy with a belt drive PSRU...search for either that or Jess Meyers,

Best,

rv6ejguy · #3 06-17-2010, 10:09 AM

Dave Sharples in Oz has had notable success with LS powered Pawnee glider tugs there. Pretty severe application. He was saving a lot of money over Lycoming 540 engines using both Ford V6 and LS1 V8 engines. Last I heard, they were applying to the Australian CAA to have an STC approved for these and planning to convert 20-30 aircraft over the next 3 years. http://public.fotki.com/freeflight/glidertug/

Nothing much wrong with the engines, it's all about good supporting systems design and maintenance to get reliability. With these, fuel and spark mapping is critically important as is the reliable supply of electrons and fuel.

Robinson has a few thousand hours on their conversions now too.

With regards to RVs, several -10s with LS power are soon to fly, I guess we'll have to see how these fare.

Cobrala · #4 06-17-2010, 11:47 AM

Alright! Cool info guys!. I am mainly concerned with the LS series and I am VERY knowledgeable about these engines in that I have built a few and I drive one into the ground (My 2001 WS6 Trans Am) on a daily basis

I worked my way threw flight school as a car mechanic. I wish to use an LS for my project but I have a few tricks up my sleeve.

rv6ejguy · #5 06-17-2010, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobrala

Alright! Cool info guys!. I am mainly concerned with the LS series and I am VERY knowledgeable about these engines in that I have built a few and I drive one into the ground (My 2001 WS6 Trans Am) on a daily basis

I worked my way threw flight school as a car mechanic. I wish to use an LS for my project but I have a few tricks up my sleeve.

The factory ECU has caused a couple gotchas when parameters got outside limits. Be very careful here. Robinson is using a reflashed OEM ECU with good success and they have the most flight experience I think. Using the factory heat range plugs has caused other piston failures so don't do that either. Watch crate engines bearing clearances as they have been a tad too tight for constant high rpm thrashing in off road applications and caused some spun bearings. Good gearbox choices are limited on the RV, can try EPI and Geared Drives. Todd had decent luck with Vesta after changes were done before he flew I think.

Go in with eyes wide open, the LS package will be heavier than the 540 and will probably not burn less fuel. Will likely have more power but some of that performance can be lost in cooling drag with poor radiator setups.

No reason it can't work well if you get all the details right as Robinson has proven but if you get something wrong, you might be added to the list of incidents...

TSwezey · #6 06-17-2010, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobrala

Hello VAF Im a long time reader first time poster but I have a question. I see a disturbing trend with LS1 conversions for RV-10. Has anyone actually successfully completed and flown an LS1/LS2/LS7 etc for more than 200 hours? I would first like to say I am glad to know that the pilots and families are ok but all the LS conversions I have seen on this site and youtube have ended in emergencies; fire, power loss, off airport forced landings etc. Has anyone had long term success with this engine?

I had 165 hours on the engine and 150 hours in the air and my failure had nothing to do with FWF. I believe where my problem occurred was inside cockpit where we were plumbed just like everybody else but running at a much higher pressure. I wouldn't build an RV-10 without an LS2 engine in it.

Cobrala · #7 06-19-2010, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rv6ejguy

The factory ECU has caused a couple gotchas when parameters got outside limits. Be very careful here. Robinson is using a reflashed OEM ECU with good success and they have the most flight experience I think. Using the factory heat range plugs has caused other piston failures so don't do that either. Watch crate engines bearing clearances as they have been a tad too tight for constant high rpm thrashing in off road applications and caused some spun bearings. Good gearbox choices are limited on the RV, can try EPI and Geared Drives. Todd had decent luck with Vesta after changes were done before he flew I think.

Go in with eyes wide open, the LS package will be heavier than the 540 and will probably not burn less fuel. Will likely have more power but some of that performance can be lost in cooling drag with poor radiator setups.

No reason it can't work well if you get all the details right as Robinson has proven but if you get something wrong, you might be added to the list of incidents...

Thanks for the info but Im pretty much familier with the issues you stated and even more with the LS1 as I have built performance engines. I use "LS1 edit" to reprogram the ECU or Bigstuff. Also, let me say that I would never use a crate LS1 or LS2 because like you said extended rpm and constant load on the engine can cause problems. I will absolutely do upgrades to the engine to increase its durability. I have a question for Todd. I thought I read on the NTSB that the fuel you had on board contained %10 alcohol, is that correct? If so I have heard from FAA AutoGas STC's and similer documents that the alcohol sometimes can cause issues with fuel systems in that it can corrode or dissolve rubber seals and o-rings etc. and that it binds to water in fuel tanks and can just overall cause problems. Maybe the alcohol contributed to the situation. By the way Todd, Im glad your ok and your project was really an inspiration for me to seriously consider auto conversions. I think Ive looked at you youtube videos 100 times!!

TSwezey · #8 06-20-2010, 05:41 AM

If you use the correct hoses and o-rings it isn't a problem at all. Cars survive every day with alcohol running in them. My LS2 ran the best on car gas. I tried to avoid 100LL as much as possible. We would run 87 Octane in it once in a while.

rv6ejguy · #9 06-21-2010, 09:29 AM

I got an E-mail back from Michael Shirley in Oz operating the LS1 powered Pawnee. They have 500 hours on it now. Very pleased with it. Only problems they have had have been with the exhaust system. Have applied some lessons learned and those now seem to be fixed.

This link might inspire you more from Robinson: http://www.v8aircraft.com/multimedia...galleries.html