Experimentals and FAR's

[apkp777]

As my first flight is getting near, I figured it's time to start thinking about flight testing and FAR's. I admit that I am sort of in a haze when it comes to all the rules pertaining experimental aircraft.

I have spent many hours today reading every FAR and Advisory Circular that I can find pertaining to experimental's. I also have read a bunch threads dealing with the subject here on VAF.

I am trying to educate myself as much as I can, but as always you all in VAF land tend to shed insight that I didn't consider. Even though I think I have the answers to the questions below. However, I don't want to have a "my mind is made up, don't confuse me with the facts: mentality. Here are the documents I have been reading.

First Question is: Does anyone know of any other documents that I should be reading?

FAR's
Part 21, Certification Procedures for Products and Parts
Part 21, subpart H, Airworthiness Certificates
Part 43, MAINTENANCE, PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE, REBUILDING, AND ALTERATION
Part 45, Identification and Registration Marking
Section 91.313, Restricted category civil aircraft: Operating limitations.
Part 91, subpart D, Special Flight Operations.

Orders
8130.2, Airworthiness Certification of Aircraft and Related Products
8300.10, Airworthiness Inspector's Handbook

Advisory Circulars
20-27, Certification and Operation of Amateur-Built Aircraft
20-139, Commercial Assistance During Construction of amateur-Built Aircraft
90-89, Amateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing Handbook

Other questions:

1. If someone with an experimental aircraft asks me to do a biannual flight review, do I need to get a waiver in order to charge them a fee?

2. I have a flight student Logan who is 16 (and just soloed). His grandfather bought him an RV 6a. Do I need a waiver to finish his flight training in the RV 6?

3. Can I do the annual condition inspection for the above mentioned airplane (I have an A&P, my IA has expired)?

4. Can I do Pro Rata share when taking people for a ride?

5. If I don't get a repairman's certificate, can I apply the building and maintenance of my airplane toward the experience requirements for my A&P?

6: Can I give a tail wheel endorsement, no charge to someone in my airplane?

[Sid Lambert]

Originally Posted by apkp777

1. If someone with an experimental aircraft asks me to do a biannual flight review, do I need to get a waiver in order to charge them a fee?

2. I have a flight student Logan who is 16 (and just soloed). His grandfather bought him an RV 6a. Do I need a waiver to finish his flight training?

3. Can I do the annual condition inspection for the above mentioned airplane (I have an A&P, my IA has expired)?

4. Can I do Pro Rata share when taking people for a ride?

5. If I don't get a repairman's certificate, can I apply the building and maintenance of my airplane toward the experience requirements for my A&P?

1: (Assuming you mean in your airplane?) No, they did away with the experimental waiver at the beginning of the 2010. You can only charge for your time. If you mean in the other persons airplane then you can charge for your time without any waiver or worry. In this case the aircraft is not for hire.

2: Again, no waiver available. Why not finish the training in his RV-6A?

3: You can to do the condition inspection on any experimental with just an A&P, no need for IA since it's not an "Annual".

4: Sure. Think of experimental like a Private Certificate. You can do pretty much anything with a PPL but be fore hire. Experimental aircraft can do pretty much anything but be for hire.

5: You can log it but I think it depends on the FAA person you ask if it can count towards your A&P. I think it's safe to say building just 1 RV doesn't qualify for the experience required though.

I'm no authority. These answers are correct to my knowledge but I have been wrong before.

[apkp777]

Sid, on question 2 I edited it to ask if I can finish the student's flight training in his RV-6. (can you believe this 16 year old kid just got an RV).

I agree with all your answers. Just seems a bit unclear about how to charge for flight instruction in someone else's airplane. It seems that I can do instruction in my own plane but not charge for it.

Question 6: Can I give a tail wheel endorsement, no charge to someone in my own airplane?

[RV6_flyer]

Originally Posted by apkp777

As my first flight is getting near, I figured it's time to start thinking about flight testing and FAR's. I admit that I am sort of in a haze when it comes to all the rules pertaining experimental aircraft.

I have spent many hours today reading every FAR and Advisory Circular that I can find pertaining to experimental's. I also have read a bunch threads dealing with the subject here on VAF.

I am trying to educate myself as much as I can, but as always you all in VAF land tend to shed insight that I didn't consider. Even though I think I have the answers to the questions below. However, I don't want to have a "my mind is made up, don't confuse me with the facts: mentality. Here are the documents I have been reading.

First Question is: Does anyone know of any other documents that I should be reading?

FAR's
Part 21, Certification Procedures for Products and Parts
Part 21, subpart H, Airworthiness Certificates
Part 43, MAINTENANCE, PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE, REBUILDING, AND ALTERATION
Part 45, Identification and Registration Marking
Section 91.313, Restricted category civil aircraft: Operating limitations.
Part 91, subpart D, Special Flight Operations.

Orders
8130.2, Airworthiness Certification of Aircraft and Related Products
8300.10, Airworthiness Inspector's Handbook

Advisory Circulars
20-27, Certification and Operation of Amateur-Built Aircraft
20-139, Commercial Assistance During Construction of amateur-Built Aircraft
90-89, Amateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing Handbook

Other questions:

1. If someone with an experimental aircraft asks me to do a biannual flight review, do I need to get a waiver in order to charge them a fee?

2. I have a flight student Logan who is 16 (and just soloed). His grandfather bought him an RV 6a. Do I need a waiver to finish his flight training in the RV 6?

3. Can I do the annual condition inspection for the above mentioned airplane (I have an A&P, my IA has expired)?

4. Can I do Pro Rata share when taking people for a ride?

5. If I don't get a repairman's certificate, can I apply the building and maintenance of my airplane toward the experience requirements for my A&P?

I think you may be reading more than you need. Yes it looks like you got the correct documents and parts of the FARs.

The EAA web site has lots of good info for Homebuilders. You need to be an EAA member to access it. If you get redirected to Oshkosh365.org, click go back button in your browser and try again.

1. Yes you can charge for YOUR TIME in their airplane but not in your Experimental Airplane.

2. NO. It is his airplane. The airplane cannot be used for compensation or hire but the CFI gets paid because someone else is furnishing the airplane FREE.

3. ANY A&P can do the once a year condition inspection on any EXPERIMENTAL aircraft and CHARGE for it.

4. I will let someone else answer this. I believe that you can SHARE expenses on a flight.

5. NO.

[burgundyja]

Can I take my commercial check ride in my 8a? I Have no rudder in the back.

[Sid Lambert]

You can charge to train someone in their aircraft.

As far as the tailwheel endorsement in your aircraft... I think it satisfies the FARs if you do not charge for the aircraft. It's one of the rules that draws dissenting opinions. If it were my certificate on the line I would ask the FSDO to cover my ***.

[Sid Lambert]

Originally Posted by burgundyja

Can I take my commercial check ride in my 8a? I Have no rudder in the back.

If the examiner will do it. It is legal and he can/will charge.

People take commercial checkrides in Bonanzas with a single yoke all the time.

[terrykohler]

You can only charge for your time.

Not in your aircraft. Without the LODA, charging only for your time would be considered a transparent attempt to circumvent the intent of the regulation. If this were the case, I'd bump my instruction rate to $200/hour and throw in the airplane for free. That way, I could avoid the higher insurance rate, the requirement for 100 hour inspections, and other oversight issues.
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N323TP

[apkp777]

Terry,

What's your thought on giving a tailwheel endorsement for free (or pro rata) in your airplane?

[Sid Lambert]

Originally Posted by terrykohler

That way, I could avoid the higher insurance rate

That also means you are self insured at that point.

Added: Not necessarily a bad thing since there are so few training accidents.