Pmag experiences,combined threads

[N131RV]

About 90 hours ago, I surrendered the data plate on my IO-360-A1B6 and converted one ignition to a PMAG (latest revision).

Up until Friday May 30th, all appeared well. I like the smooth starting, did experience a bit of speed increase, engine ran very smooth.

On that Friday, at about 7:30 am, I departed for work and experience a very nerve wracking engine experience. While on climbout the engine starting running rough and experienced a loss of power (not total, but noticeable).

I immediately returned to the airstrip and parked the plane, got my nerves under control and called Emagair. Left a message. Later that day, my mechanic and I did test ground runs and the PMAG was running rough. Pulled and examined all plugs. Two plugs were found to be fouled, so we replaced them. The engine ran better, almost as new. Still a tiny amount of miss on the PMAG, which we attributed to a slightly marginal plug. I again called Emagair and left another message. Meanwhile I ordered new plugs from Spruce.

Saturday, Sunday and Monday pass, no response from Emagair. Tuesday I flew the airplane on my usual run, it appeared to be back to normal. Still no call back from Emagair.

Wednesday around 11:00 am I finally get the call back from Emagair. Seems to pass right over their head it's been FIVE DAYS since I called. Since the plane seems to be running OK now, we have a long discussion about plugs, etc.

Thursday, no flying. Friday, I make my commute and the plane runs good on the outbound leg. Coming home, I experience an extremely brief "stumble" on the engine just after takeoff. It does not repeat. I pass it off to a "gremlin". My mistake.

Saturday, the wife and I load up to go for a short trip. Plane passes the mag checks, takeoff is quite normal and about 60 seconds into the flight, the engine gives us both a scare as it again "stumbles" and recovers, then repeats. I switch to the Bendix and the engine keeps running steadily, but at a slightly reduced power (normal). On the PMAG, it is missing steadily, catching and missing, "stumbling" badly.

Pulled the plugs and the same two that were fouled before are showing signs of fouling again, the plugs are wet and oily. All six other plugs are clean.

I replace all 8 plugs with the new ones from Spruce, do a test ground run and there is still the slightest of misses on the PMAG, nothing major, just a slight "tick" of the engine. It's late in the day, hot and I'm beat so I put off the test flight.

Today, I decide to test fly and the PMAG starts acting up within one minute of takeoff. Since the engine is running good on the Bendix, I allow the engine to run on the PMAG for a good 30 seconds (scary) as it kicks in and out, almost completely stopping a couple of times.

I of course called Emagair and left another message.
The reason I am posting this is I am not satisfied with the turn around time I get on the phone, so perhaps, they read VAF on the weekends and will be stimulated to call me in less than 5 days.

There is NO emergency contact info on their web site that I can find.
If anyone on this forum can contact the owners of Emagair directly to let them know the situation, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks all.

[Ron Lee]

Switching to regular mag only was good. Of course you may not wish to fly a long time that way but it may be a better option that running with both...where one makes the engine run poorly.

[scard]

My story was almost exactly the same a couple of years ago when we were taking unnecessary risks with dual pmags.

[szicree]

Be aware that malfunctioning pmags have been known to over advance. Running on the pmag in this case can beat up an engine pretty quick.

[N941WR]

Originally Posted by szicree

Be aware that malfunctioning pmags have been known to over advance. Running on the pmag in this case can beat up an engine pretty quick.

Steve, that problem was taken care of a long time ago. What he described here is something different.

Once an E/P-mag went "over advance", it stayed that way, even with a power cycle. I know, I had one on the second flight of my -9 back in '07. What he is talking about is something different altogether. It could be a problem with the P-mag or the installation. Don't be so quick to condemn the ignition until we know more.

As Brad once told me, "You don't have a proven product until you have 500 units installed in 500 different aircraft by 500 different people."

There is the possibility that a bad ground is the cause the stumble. I'd say the chances of bad P-mag or bad wiring is the same, maybe even a better chance of a bad installation.

[cguarino]

Originally Posted by N131RV

I of course called Emagair and left another message.
The reason I am posting this is I am not satisfied with the turn around time I get on the phone, so perhaps, they read VAF on the weekends and will be stimulated to call me in less than 5 days.

There is NO emergency contact info on their web site that I can find.
If anyone on this forum can contact the owners of Emagair directly to let them know the situation, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks all.

Brad and Tom do not read this forum or any other. If I wasn't leaving on a trip tomorrow I would stop by and talk to them for you but I won't be able to go by there until next week. Hopefully you will have your problem fixed by then. If you still can't contact Brad by then, let me know. Just remember, they are a three man shop.

[szicree]

Originally Posted by N941WR

Steve, that problem was taken care of a long time ago. What he described here is something different.

Once an E/P-mag went "over advance", it stayed that way, even with a power cycle. I know, I had one on the second flight of my -9 back in '07. What he is talking about is something different altogether. It could be a problem with the P-mag or the installation. Don't be so quick to condemn the ignition until we know more.

Where did I condemn anything? In reading the original post it sounded like the engine ran worse on both than on just the bendix. If the pmag is simply missing (due to bad ground) I wouldn't expect it to make things significantly worse.

Also, I am aware that the manufacturer took care of the timing problem, but the original post never said when their unit was installed or built. I was simply suggesting that intentionally running on a malfunctioning pmag could be harmful.

[rwtalbot]

Hi Joe,

My experience has always been that Emagair are excellent about making good on their product. However, they are a small company and from time to time they go out of town - to air shows and the like.

If you have a Bendix, the first thing is to check that you and your mechanic are timing the PMAG to the TDC mark. This can be confusing as the Mag is timed to the 25 degrees BTDC mark. The engineers all get it wrong through force of habit. Your problem doesn?t sound that simple - but it is the first thing to check.

Did you make the ignition leads? If so try to check them on a proper spark plug lead tester as opposed to the multimeter test suggested in the manual.

I have had a few issues with their units in the first few hours before they figured out a few bugs which was very frustrating. I'm in Australia - so my problems are a lot worse than other US customers if I need a repair. For this reason I have a spare unit in my hanger. At this point I've wasted my money as I have never needed to use it.

Ultimately I have stuck with them and the latest units/firmware have been outstanding. I have confidence in them and I am happy that two units provides sufficient redundancy. I have experienced mag failures as well so anything can happen.

I?m pretty sure Brad does have a cell phone which you could call. I had the number once but I can?t find it. Someone on here should be able to send it to you via personal message.

Good Luck!

Richard

[ao.frog]

Hi.

Do you lean on ground?
If not, that could easily foul your plugs.

On the same note: I guess you lean in the air including climbs to higher altiudes?
If not, that could also lead to fouling.

I realize that your problem is probaly not fouling alone, but it could be part of it maybe?

What type of spark plugs are you using?

Have you checked and tested all your wiring including the ignition switch?

Are you using the 113 or 114 series?
Test their internal generator according to the procedure described in the manual.

I assume you have blast tubes installed?

Put temp stickers on them to see how high temp they are seeing during ops.

I have dual P-mags in my -7 and I'm VERY happy with them so far.
No problems at all after the last update.
I've also bought a pair for my second -7.

I'm also very happy with Brad and his company so far. Send him a e-mail if not able to get him on the phone.
I'm sure he'll work with you to solve your problem.

Good luck and please keep us updated about the problem and it's sollution.

Thanks.

[RV8R999]

Are you using automotive plugs or aviation with the P-Mag?