selling engine core

[Mr Charles]

I am new to the forums here and need some advice please. I have a good 0-360 engine core in an old mooney A model that had a nosewheel collapse and a propstrike. A D.I. check shows runout is w/i tolerance (actually on low side). I need to sell this and maybe the plane, as it is restorable or would make a good parts plane. I tried ads in trade a plane, but got few calls. I really need some advice on what a reasonable value would be, and how best to get these sold--it's panel upgrade time for my 4!!! (I did place a thread in the VAF classified section, but not sure what price to ask) Would really appreciate some feedback.

[koda2]

Mr. Charles,

The value of a used engine varies considerably. I am in the market for an 0-360 of some kind and I have looked at prices all over the map.

The specifics make all the difference.
What model number? Some won't fit RVs
What is the total time and TBO?
Are there logs? and are they good? It matters even for an experimental.

Is it a prop strike? That means a crank check at the very least. Talking a grand there, mas y menos, for the magnafluxing and whatever else you do. Zero runout doesn't mean the crank is okay. Also, cam, rods, pistons can also be damaged. Sudden stoppages purportedly can even break the plastic gears in the mags, so prudence dictates a close look at everything and buying a prop strike engine is rolling the dice unless its guaranteed.

Type of cylinders, chrome or steel? Steel cylinders will rust easily if not ran or pickled.
What accessories if any, come with it?
Type of mount?

A builder looking at a core will try to figure his total cost to get it going and work backwards to a price, vs buying a new engine or a new kit. Talk to some engine builders; they(some) will give you a good and fair estimate.

Dave A.
6AQB

[Mr Charles]

Dave, thanks for your reply. Most of the information you mention I have available. I realize the issues with the prop strike and the possible corrosion, and plan to adjust the price accordingly. I sincerely wish to make the best "win, win" deal possible. Which is why I am posting these questions! Could you recommend a couple of engine builders that would give me a fair assessment?
Charles

[koda2]

Charles,
There are plenty of excellent engine builders on this forum. Without lots of details they won't be able to give you much help. One builder I know will not spend more than 3-4K for a run-out "core" in order to make the finances come out. However, a "core" means different things to different people.

I am assuming that the engine you are talking about is a 0-360 A1A with a hollow crank. I am not a Mooney expert but aren't they 180hp constant speed with a McCauley prop? If the TT is less than 2K the chances are that the case is in pretty good shape, i.e, no fretting, wear, etc.

One would still have to assess the remaining components; thats why buying a used engine is still tough to do without seeing it. Also, it may be the original engine or it may have been a new engine replacement for the older aircraft. That's why the logs matter.

To back up even further, if you are really wanting to sell the Mooney and it is repairable, you will be able to sell it much more easily if the engine stays with it. Any one buying it (a certified AC) will have to go out and find the exact same engine (per Type certificate) to restore the Mooney. The Mooneys had other issues, i.e. wooden tails etc, that may be a factor too. Point here is that it will be for most a much easier project with the engine on the plane.

The aircraft resale market has been tough where I'm at. The guy in the big hangar next door has had a half dozen aircraft mostly repaired Cessnas and Bonanzas, that he couldn't move, although lately things look like they have picked up a bit. I imagine prices are still somewhat depressed. If selling the Mooney is a priority, your best bet may be to cut your losses and sell the whole package and they take what you recoup and put it into your RV. Only you can decide which way is best for you.
Dave A.

[koda2]

Charles,
There are plenty of excellent engine builders on this forum. Without lots of details they won't be able to give you much help. One builder I know will not spend more than 3-4K for a run-out "core" in order to make the finances come out. However, a "core" means different things to different people.

I am assuming that the engine you are talking about is a 0-360 A1A with a hollow crank. I am not a Mooney expert but aren't they 180hp constant speed with a McCauley prop? If the TT is less than 2K the chances are that the case is in pretty good shape, i.e, no fretting, wear, etc.

One would still have to assess the remaining components; thats why buying a used engine is still tough to do without seeing it. Also, it may be the original engine or it may have been a new engine replacement for the older aircraft. That's why the logs matter.

To back up even further, if you are really wanting to sell the Mooney and it is repairable, you will be able to sell it much more easily if the engine stays with it. Any one buying it (a certified AC) will have to go out and find the exact same engine (per Type certificate) to restore the Mooney. The Mooneys had other issues, i.e. wooden tails etc, that may be a factor too. Point here is that it will be for most a much easier project with the engine on the plane.

The aircraft resale market has been tough where I'm at. The guy in the big hangar next door has had a half dozen aircraft mostly repaired Cessnas and Bonanzas, that he couldn't move, although lately things look like they have picked up a bit. I imagine prices are still somewhat depressed. If selling the Mooney is a priority, your best bet may be to cut your losses and sell the whole package and then take what you recoup and put it into your RV. Only you can decide which way is best for you.
Dave A.

[Toobuilder]

Originally Posted by Mr Charles

I am new to the forums here and need some advice please. I have a good 0-360 engine core in an old mooney A model that had a nosewheel collapse and a propstrike...

As a woodwing Mooney owner myself, I can tell you that there is almost zero value to the airplane as a project. You are far better off parting out anything that is "generic" (engine, instruments, brakes, etc) and just donate or scrap the Mooney specific parts. The woodwing Mooneys scare most people, and many of the expensive parts like gear, wing, interior, and fuselage are unique (don't retrofit to newer Mooneys). Even those that do retrofit (a metal tail, for instance) have extremely limited value. For example, I have a perfect, low time metal tail that I can't give away. It would seem that Mooney people are like BMW people in the respect that they would rather buy new than fix up anything old.

The engine propstrike also is a red flag to most buyers unless the price is cheap enough to justify the risk. You might come out ahead by tearing the engine down and getting some of the big ticket items overhauled/inspected and "tagged" (i.e. certified). You might be able to get as much for a tagged crank, rods and case as the whole core as it sits today.

I would part it out as much as possible and dump the rest.

[Jerry Cochran]

No one would know anything about this engine until it is torn down. Expect to pay at least $3k minimum just to find out it is perfect. If not the sky is the limit.

Am I wrong, engine builders?


.

[NDrv8r]

Well I got this IO360-A1B6 for 8600. It had a prop strike but the prop flange miked out to .003 flange runout. I removed the accessory case, and all was well there. I toyed with the idea of not going any farther, but good sense prevailed and I sent the crank, cam and rods in. Well the good news is I won't make a smoking hole because the crank failed.

The bad news is the crank was cracked 1/3 of the diameter near the thrust flange. I was quoted $18k for a new crank and counterweight assy. Yikes my cheap 200 hp just got expensive.

Does anyone out there have a line on a IO360 200hp crank? Does anyone have any thoughts about replacing it with a non counterweight crank? My intention is to run a 3 blade cato prop, and no or very limited aerobatics.

My idea of the purpose of counterweights is to dampen out some of the harmonics that I believe the Catto may not generate.

Your thoughts please.

[RV8RIVETER]

That sure seems excessively expensive! New non counterrweighted are shy of $5k. I would think you can do much better than that.

I would imagine you could convert to a non counterweighted without too much fuss. The counterweights are not to cancel out the prop vibes, but certain frequencies particular to the engine.

[Toobuilder]

Originally Posted by NDrv8r

Well I got this IO360-A1B6 for 8600...

...I was quoted $18k for a new crank and counterweight assy. Yikes my cheap 200 hp just got expensive.

...Does anyone out there have a line on a IO360 200hp crank? Does anyone have any thoughts about replacing it with a non counterweight crank?

...Your thoughts please.

Since you asked for thoughts...

...Your tolerance for risk is much higher than mine. Without a full inspection, I would automatically factor in the price for a new crank in any propstrike engine. Whether any given asking price is justified them becomes a matter of the value of the remaining components. Unless it's a very low time engine with lots of life left on cylinders, accessories, etc, my risk posture pegs a 360 Lyc at about $3-3.5k. With that said, I think $18k for a crank is insane. You certainly should be able to find a serviceable crank that will fit your engine for a lot less than that. I'd sure call one of the bigger engine builders (Mattituck, LyCon, etc) to see if they can help. At the very least, they will be able to tell you what your options are concerning the mixing and matching of components. Some parts are a direct swap, and some changes create a ripple effect through the whole engine (parts wise). Best to call an expert.