Hooker v. Crow

[tonyjohnson]

I planned on using Crow harnesses as Paul Dye did in his 8. The military latch type, 5 belt system to fit an 8 costs $85 from Crow, and even a little less from some other distributors. The Hooker sport harnesses are $200 per set before the 30% group buy discount or $140 with the discount.


http://www.crowenterprizes.com/shop.asp


Given the 30% discount, I am considering whether to buy the less expensive Crow product, or switch to the hooker and get in on the group buy. The question is, what are the differences between the two, and are the Hookers worth almost twice as much, even with the discount? The Crow harness can be had in 3 in width which seems to be prefered by some.

Does the FAA care? I noticed some language in an FAA publication encouraging experimental folks to use approved harnesses. They approved Pauls.

I did notice that the pads come with the Hooker but not with the Crow. I don't know the costs of pads but I doubt that they make up the difference between the Crows and Hookers even after the discount.

Any thoughts experiences or observations would be appreciated.

[Ironflight]

Tony,

I've only used a Hooker harness once or twice, and I have to say that they are great! One of the nicest features is that they put the adjusting buckle on the "fixed" end of the belt, so that when you want to tighten down your harness, you pull UP - much better leverage if you really want to cinch down hard. And yes, they already come with pads.

So why did I go with Crow? Well, they met all of my requirements, and did so for a lot lower price (as you already noticed). If the price for the Hookers had been been the same, I would have gone with them - but at the time, it was almost double!

My requirements?

1) Crashworthiness - had to meet a decent certification standard. I did a fair amount of research, and found out that the FAA harness certification standard is quite old, and in fact, based on a 1950's era automotive standard. The Crow harness is built to the latest safety standards imposed for international auto racing. When I compared the numbers (and unfortunately, I can't find that data now - MIA in a move since), the important thing was not that the Crow was buiult to t a higher standard,it was that EITHER standard meant that the harness would take a lot more than the human body (or the aircraft attatch points) could survive. I talked it over with a survival equipment engineer at work, and he made the point that the harnesses themselves ALWAYS survive the crashes....

2) FAA acceptance - you should be able to prove, via good logical arguments, that the harness meets the intent of the Regs, and I was prepared to defend my choice using the data I cited above. Didn't have to - didn't get asked.

3) Comfort - harness had to be comfortable, with shoulder pads and wide straps. Either choice met this requirement.

4) Buckle - I wanted a rotary five-point buckle, because I like them! The price spread between Hooker and Crow on this item was wider than on the plain military-style latch system.

Bottom line - Either Hooker or Crow way exceeded my requirements, so either was a viable choice. I didn't feel that I needed the incredible tightening-down power of the Hooker design, becasue I just wasn't going tofly that kind of violent aerobatics (I like positive G's!), so that wasn't a down-side for the Crow. I bought the harnes pads separately from another racing company (and they are Nomex and have Schroth labels on them!) for like $28 a pair - very inexpensive!

So with all that said, I found no other descriminator except price, so I went with the MUCH cheaper option. This group buy, however, at 30% off , is an incredible deal, and if I were in the market now, I would definitely crunch all the numbers and see if the Hooker's were within reach!

Choices, choices, choices....

Paul

[Mel]

Paul,
I didn't ask you about your harness because I am familiar with the Crow product. Had your harness been one I was not familiar with we would have discussed it. The regs don't say that you have to use an approved harness, but if the harness used is one that is not approved, it will be noted in the paperwork for future reference. My checklist asks, "Are the seat belts/ shoulder harness TSOd, PMAd, approved (if so by whom) or no."
Mel...DAR

[trib]

I'm at the same point and the crow harnesses sure look good, particularly in price comparison. Note that they also have the "pull up" style as one of the options, so if that's desired it's available. The pads are nice, but with 3" wide belts, I'm not sure you need them (Hookers are 1.5" I think). I also want the rotary lock, which puts the Hookers at a significant cost increase. Here's the next question, it seems the group buys are getting to be the way to go. Is there enough interest to contact Crow and see if we can get a deal there? I'll be in for it.

Tim Ribble
Going on year 7 for a 6A
ribbles4@cox.net

[trib]

I went ahead and sent a message to Crow to see if they were interested. I'll post the results when I get them.

[aadamson]

Originally Posted by trib

I'm at the same point and the crow harnesses sure look good, particularly in price comparison. Note that they also have the "pull up" style as one of the options, so if that's desired it's available. The pads are nice, but with 3" wide belts, I'm not sure you need them (Hookers are 1.5" I think). I also want the rotary lock, which puts the Hookers at a significant cost increase. Here's the next question, it seems the group buys are getting to be the way to go. Is there enough interest to contact Crow and see if we can get a deal there? I'll be in for it.

Hookers are availabe in 2" and 1.75" widths. According to the FAA (AC) on shoulder harnesses, those two are the optimal size. Now if the Crows offered inertial reels, this would be a no brainer

[Broken-wrench]

If it doesn't have a TSO Tag I'm out

[penguin]

I'm in on the Hooker group buy as they are the best harness I've ever used (for 4 years in a previous airplane). I would ask Crow a couple of questions. Do they offer a longer attachment tang that Hooker does (necessary on RV-6 & 7) and do they really provide a pull up tightening system (no pictures on web site)? I know that Hooker provides a very good product (that I will be very intimate with for many hours), so I would be reluctant to go to another supplier to save only a few bucks.

Pete

[Radomir]

I talked to Crow guys a while back.. and some points taken from that conversation:

1) They can do 1/4" hardware (so no need for those little spacers to fit AN4 bolts in the brackets). Note that their standard hardware is for 1/2" bolts!!

2) They can customize it any way you want (length etc.. )

3) Their standard is 3" because that's the standard in auto racing, which they primarily cater to. They can do 2" no prob -- only difference you won't get that SFI16 (or whatever it's called) "stamp" on 'em

4) IIRC, they recommended V type harness, but they can do Y type just as well -- it doesn't matter that much to them

5) Their rotary latch system is A LOT cheaper than Hooker's

I haven't ordered them back then, but I"ll most likely go with Crow as I want the rotary latch (kam-lock, as they call it) at a reasonable price.

[TerryPancake]

Where is the 30% discount on the Hooker Belts? I see the 10% http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ead.php?t=5611
So is there a Hooker 30% group buy?
Thank you..