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  #31  
Old 02-16-2006, 01:54 PM
jcoloccia jcoloccia is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CFI1513840
This reminds me of a situation many years ago when I gave some flight instruction to the inmate of a nearby minimum security prison who was nearing parole. He was allowed to participate in an outside day-work program at our local airport. The airport manager would pick him up at the prison in the morning and deliver him back at night, several days a week. While at the airport, he did odd jobs and pretty much had the run of the place. He was allowed to take flying lessons as part of this program, (in compensation for his work) so he progressed through solo and was working towards his private license. He had the makings of a pretty good pilot. I left the area for a year or so, but when I got back I heard that he had stolen a C-172 and earned a little more time in prison, this time without any more flying lessons.
I guess he didn't read Dan's primer on flying to Mexico...
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  #32  
Old 02-16-2006, 02:53 PM
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CFI1513840 CFI1513840 is offline
 
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Location: Evans, GA
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Default Flying criminal trivia...

Another alumni of Lompoc FCI was Christofer Boyce of the Falcon and the Snowman fame, but at a much later time than when I was teaching my soon-to-be paroled friend Bill to fly. Boyce escaped from Lompoc in 1981 and was on the loose for 19 months, during which time he took flying lessons in Washington. He was two weeks short of getting his Private Pilot license and a flight to Russia via the Bering Straits when they caught up with him.
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  #33  
Old 02-16-2006, 05:26 PM
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CFI1513840 CFI1513840 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoloccia
I guess he didn't read Dan's primer on flying to Mexico...
Dan was a twinkle in his daddy's eye when Bill was planning to fly the coop in his stolen C-172, so I guess he was just born 40 years too soon.
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  #34  
Old 02-16-2006, 06:49 PM
Tom Maxwell Tom Maxwell is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 213
Default Purpose Of Incarceration

The value of incarceration is typically argued from one of three angles:

1) Rehabilitation
2) Punishment
3) Protection of society

Seems to me that if one subscribes to #2, then one must accept the sentence handed down by the system and assume the convicted has served his/her punishment and is free and clear when the sentence is over. It would then be difficult to argue that the person shouldn't be allowed to pursue any activities not prohibited by law i.e convicted fellons cannot vote nor legally own handguns. In this case the FAA has said it is not illegal so on it goes. I guess it can be argued when this person should be allowed to pursue his interests but that is nit picking in my opinion.

Seems to me that if one subscribes to #3, then anything short of a death sentence or life in prison would be short of fulfilling the goal. After all, does protection of society become no longer necessary at the end of a sentence? If a person is a threat to society today, does he/she magically become a nonthreat tomorrow when the sentence is up?

Thirdly, if one subscribes to the notion that incarceration is to provide time for rehabilitation, then one probably has no issue with the situation under discussion.

I happen to believe that each case needs to stand on its own. And I am glad our system is such that each situation is looked at individually, tried by a jury of peers, and that there is some latitude in sentencing guidelines. I have been to many countries in which such latitude is nonexistant and the sentences are often contrary and arbitray, the results are not all that great. I too know people who have made mistakes, some pretty severe, and am relieved that "...throwing away the key," was not the only option. I do believe that some people are hardened criminals with little chance of rehabilitation and for them punishment and protecting society are the primary goals of incarceration. However, there are others who, as has been said already, do make mistakes. They pay their debt to society, are truly remorseful, and deserve a second chance. We leave it up to our administrators and parole boards and courts and yes politicians to make these determinations. In this case the powers to be made a decision based on what they know about this fellow. I think we need to respect that decision or has been suggested work to change the laws.

On the surface it may appear that this decision plain sucks, but we need to hold back our passion and put faith in the system. The system is not always right, as it is only as good as the laws and people supporting it, but I happen to think our system works pretty darn well. Given the alternatives, I happen to think it is great.
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  #35  
Old 02-16-2006, 07:33 PM
Tom Maxwell Tom Maxwell is offline
 
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Default Respectfully Disagree

Quote:
Originally Posted by william weesner
tried by a jury of peers. this statement is so untrue it sickens me. jury selection is at best trying to find the most people who have no clue as to who or what you are and are as opposite as possible. they try to select people that will bury you is what they do,. but then the lawyers get involved and screw an honest man and set the guilty free.. i think weve all seen this tooooo many times ...but then theres dna setting people free everyday..yes it is the best system but man thats a scary thought bet they dont let the cessna pilot that broke the no fly zone fly from jail.....or anywhere else for that matter....and he's probaly a great guy...
.
Man you are pretty emotional about this William and that's OK, I like passion in an individual.

Yes there is a jury selection process and I believe the idea of a jury of peers is everyday people from everyday walks of life deciding the outcome of our case rather than an appointed person or group of people. I have been involved with a few court martial situations and I can tell you that a court martial is just about as opposite of a jury of peers as you can get. But that is another story. The jury selection process does allow for a finite number of challenges and refusals and the judge can disqualify others for good cause, but I disagree that the jury selection process is as stacked as you suggest it might be. Setting on a couple of jury pools will quickly reveal that lawyers do not have unbridaled discretion in stacking the jury. Besides, if the accused wishes he/she can wave his/her right to a jury trial and asked to be judged by the court alone. Yes there are faults and misques and mistakes. A lot of good people are trying to fix these problems within the law. I still maintain that it is the best system around.

As far as the pilot(s) who broke the ADIZ (if those are the ones you are referring to), I may be wrong, but I don't believe either one of them got any jail time and the pilot will be eligible to get his ticket back a year down the road. And if I recall properly, correct me if I am wrong, his lawyer is trying to get that reduced to a 10 month suspension. He made a really dumb/stupid/unbelieveable/idiotic mistake, should we lock him up for life for doing so? There were a large number of people calling for his head as well. I am glad we have a system that gives him the opportunity to recover from his mistakes rather than allowing a group of vigilantes to string him up.

Hopefully not, but you may just need the protections of this system some day.

Good luck to you. Everything is going to be alright and the sun will come up tomorrow. In all likelihood you will never have to meet or deal with this guy so it isn't worth having a stroke over. Relax and don't worry about the things over which you have no control.

Take care!
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  #36  
Old 02-17-2006, 03:11 AM
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rv8ch rv8ch is online now
 
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Location: LSGY
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Default Criminal justice system

Quote:
...you are correct this is the best system especially compared to others...
I agree that our system is better than many, probably better than most, but I think it's a bit of a stretch to say it's the best. We've got more people in jail than anyone else. I think we can do better. Prison is the NTSB report of our society. I feel that hiring more NTSB investigators is not the answer, better education and training is.

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  #37  
Old 02-17-2006, 05:59 AM
Broken-wrench Broken-wrench is offline
 
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Posts: 44
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeG
Fortunately we don't have to live behind gated communities in Texas, since our 2nd ammendment rights are at least partially intact with the Concealed Handgun License Law. If someone exercises the poor judgment to attack me or mine, or a third party in my presence... well let's just say, they won't need any flyin' lessons...


Everyone knows the only tall buildings in Texas are in Dallas so that leaves Texas with a shortage of prisoner runways!
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  #38  
Old 02-24-2006, 12:33 AM
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JoeG JoeG is offline
 
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Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 146
Default Get Real... Again!

Where the heck did that chart come from; USA Today? CNN? Oh wait...it's right there in the fine print... what the heck is November.org? Oh here it is. I found their mission statement. In part it says:

"We are a growing body of citizens whose lives have been gravely affected by our government's present drug policy. We are prisoners, parents of those incarcerated, wives, sisters, brothers, children, aunts, uncles and cousins...

...The drug war is an assault and steady erosion of our civil rights and freedoms "

Now THAT sounds like an unbiased objective group. A bunch of druggies and their families! So they think doing illicit drugs is now a civil right!?!?!? WHAT A JOKE! Of course they are against prisons, they are FELONS!

Oh and they conveniently forgot to list CHINA on that list. Not to mention North Korea, Vietnam, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Cuba... And even if there were numbers for those places, I would doubt the accuracy of information shared by any "closed" society.

I did get a good laugh out of it though, so it had some value

Sometimes, ya just have to wonder.....
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