Anyone build an RV with Pop Rivets? Is it even possible?

[lacofdfireman]

I am sure this is a dumb question and the fact that why would you even want to build an RV with a pop or Pulled rivet will be mentioned but I am curious as to if it can be done... Downsides besides looks and aerodynamics? Is there issues with structual integrity also? I am years away from being able to build but I like to lurk and ask dumb questions... Someday though I will have me a tungsten bar and be bucking rivets on my own RV7A... It's a dream at this time in my life but one day it will happen...

[Ron Lee]

I don't know about structural issues but the resale value would probably be close to zero.

[SHIPCHIEF]

There is a local Mustang II built with 'round head' rivets.
That, plus it's sitting on tricycle gear. It took me a while to realize it is a Mustang!
I did not meet the owner to get his comments on performance. I know I went thru a lot of hassle dimpling and all, but seeing is believing in this (close enough) case.

[Snowflake]

Pulled rivet structures can be just as strong as driven-rivet structures, so there's no issues there. The number of rivets may need to be adjusted to match the strengths. Aerodynamically? Well, you could always use countersunk pulled rivets (in dimpled holes) and then fill in the holes, but it would be almost as much work as just using solid ones in the first place.

[Sparky]

...not a dumb question. Pop rivets generally have less structural integrity, poorer aerodynamic properties, higher weight, and/or higher cost. The RV-12 can pull this off because of its lower airspeed and performance requirements with "lower quality" pop rivets. But why would you want to consider pop rivets for a higher performance aircraft? The pop rivets generally included with RV kits do not have the same structural integrity as the prescribed driven rivets. You would need to use Cherry rivets or equivalent structural rivets to achieve the same or similar structural strength. This would require much higher additional cost and weight to achieve the same or similar performance, with absolutely no advantage over driven rivets. Driven rivets are the most aerodynamic, lightweight, cost-effective solution available, and that is why Van's specifies them. In my RV-7 I only use pop rivets where I absolutely cannot use driven rivets.

By the way, I built my entire "standard build" RV-7 without a tungsten bucking bar. While it may be easier, it's not totally necessary (although I wish I had purchased one when I started my project).

[az_gila]

...Vans early RV-6 instructions say that it is permissible to rivet the entire lower wing skins with countersunk CS-4-4 or MK-319-BS rivets - so they are structural enough for wing skins.

But, as said above, it would look ugly....

[rvbuilder2002]

Originally Posted by Sparky

The RV-12 can pull this off because of its lower airspeed and performance requirements with "lower quality" pop rivets. But why would you want to consider pop rivets for a higher performance aircraft?

Actually the RV-12 being lower performance has very little to do with an industrial grade blind rivet being acceptable as a rivet fastener.
It is primarily related to the structure being designed to use a rivet fastener with a given strength rating. If a replacement rivet of a strength equal to the ones it is replacing is used, then blind rivets could be substituted for most of the rivets in an RV (but it wouldn't be very practical for all of the reasons already mentioned).

[DakotaHawk]

The only reason (that I could think of) for a lurker to ask this question, is that he may think that it's simpler to pull pop rivets than it is to buck rivets. If someone thought that they were going to spend a lot of time with little or no help, they may think that they couldn't shoot rivets by themselves.

If that's the reason for this question, then the real question should be "Can I shoot and buck rivets without assistance?"

The answer (for about 95% of the rivets on an RV) is YES! Very few of us had an assistant standing by with a bucking bar, just waiting for us to match-drill, deburr, countersink, and then buck a rivet. Most of us simply prepared the area, loaded the rivets in the prepared holes, picked up a 3X rivet gun in one hand and an bucking bar in the other, and pounded rivets. After bucking a handful of rivets, you'll get pretty good at bucking/shooting your own rivets. Much easier than pulling pop rivets, and more pleasing to the eye!

There are a few areas where assistance is required. For example, when you're closing out the wing skins, you're going to need help. Also, when you're closing out the skins on the fuselage. By the time you get to that stage of the construction, you'll probably have met a few RVers who would be happy to stop by, buck a couple of rivets, and drink your beer.

[Crossbow]

Originally Posted by lacofdfireman

I am sure this is a dumb question and the fact that why would you even want to build an RV with a pop or Pulled rivet will be mentioned but I am curious as to if it can be done... Downsides besides looks and aerodynamics? Is there issues with structual integrity also? I am years away from being able to build but I like to lurk and ask dumb questions... Someday though I will have me a tungsten bar and be bucking rivets on my own RV7A... It's a dream at this time in my life but one day it will happen...

It is most certianly not a dumb question! In fact, almost the same question like this came up some months ago, and the answer was except for the wing spars, then the answer was a "yes" provided that the correct type of pop rivets are used.

However, these type of rivets are a good bit heavier than the solid rivets so there will be a weight penalty. Also, they will not be quite as aerodymanic and using them so extensively may hurt the resale value.

But, if you are looking for a more authoritative answer, then I suggest that you ask Vans.

I hope this helps!

[FresnoR]

I actually do know of an older gentleman building an 8 with strictly pop-rivets. However, I believe he is in his late 80's and the plane will realistically never fly, its more of a hobby and just giving him something to do.