Radio calls for flights of two or more

erich weaver · #1 11-16-2009, 11:32 AM

Would like to hear from folks what the proper ettiquette is for radio calls when you are participating in a flight of two or more. Can all radio communication calls for the group be made by the leader? Are there any calls that should only be to/from the individual planes? Any change in the protocol when departing/arriving at a towered airport compared to non-towered? What about for flight following communications?

thanks

erich

flyeyes · #2 11-16-2009, 11:45 AM

This is pretty well covered IIRC in the t-34 manual as well as some of the other manuals floating around.

The best way to do this is find some experienced people who are willing to teach you. It is neither easy nor safe to figure it out on your own.

With the caveat about self-teaching, the I really like the Bob Hoover video "Formation flying: The Art."

There is an old joke that the only thing the wingman should ever say on the radio is either "Two" (when checking in) or "Lead, you're on fire!"

erich weaver · #3 11-16-2009, 11:57 AM

To clarify, Im not really talking about true formation flying - just folks in separate planes, but 'travelling together'. Perhaps that makes all the difference in the answer. Not quite sure what this means with respect to actual min/max distances apart, but it would certainly be enough to distance to keep everyone comfortable.

erich

RV10Man · #4 11-16-2009, 12:31 PM

What we do when go as a flight of 2 or 3, or more, we decide, before we ever get in the airplanes, who is going to be lead/talker and where everyone else is going to be in the "gaggle" from there. The leader will be the only one transmitting, everyone else just LISTENS. When the leader makes the initial call to the tower or whoever, his contact info...."Oak City approach, RV..." Appr. responds..."RV...Oak City app. This is when the leader tells approach, "RV...flight of (how many) with all the info. From this point whenever RV... is contacted by app., tower, etc that transmission includes everyone in that flight. ie RV....cleared to land rwy.... this means everyone in the fllight is cleared to land, unless told other wise by controller.
I may be wrong in how we've done this but, this procedure has always worked for us. And we've never been invited to call the tower.

A couple of years ago, we had a flight of 3. There was an accident. We immediately got "accused" (on this site, not the FAA) of formation flying without training. The "accuser" didn't know us from Adam or whether we had formation training or not. Although none of us had any formation training, that's why we were a flight of three. We were "spaced" about 1/2 mile apart. I don't know how many formation flights are that spread out.

Marshall Alexander

John Clark · #5 11-16-2009, 12:32 PM

Hi Erich,

The rules really assume a formation flight. You can have the "lead" do all the radio work and refer to him/herself as NXXX, a flight of two, but the tower is going to expect a formation takeoff. Also, if you are operating out of Class 'C' airport, you are going to get one clearance and transponder code, again assuming a close formation. Simpler to go it alone and join up along the way.

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA

newtech · #6 11-16-2009, 12:36 PM

Probably not even qualified to respond here but my hangar mate, "Indiana Larry" and I often fly with our wives as a flight of two. We agree before getting into the planes who will be Lead, i.e. do all of the radio work. Basically when ever we would give our N number we give it as Nxxxx, flight of two. On first call we will usually give it as Experimental Nxxxx, flight of two RV's. I have heard somewhere that only the lead should have his transponder on except when within a Class B's 30 mile ring.

If I am wrong on any of this let me know and I will edit this post.

ArVeeNiner · #7 11-16-2009, 12:37 PM

I've flown along side a buddy a few times in my Aeronca a few years back. What we'd do is decide who will do the talking to the tower or traffic (usually me) well in advance and then he'd monitor on the active freq as I made all the calls. I'd say something like "Hay Patch Tower, Aeronca blah blah blah, flight of two, 5 miles out, yada yada, landing". Then they would usually add "flight" to all the calls to me and my friend. For instance, "Aeronca blah blah blah flight, cleared to land". It was easy. I never mentioned his type of aircraft unless asked.

RV10Man · #8 11-16-2009, 12:52 PM

Steve, John, Kelly, what you guys said is pretty much what we do/did. Only the lead had his transponder on, the rest of us were instructed by the tower to turn ours off. Their equipment told them we were on a collision course. The airport wasn't busy at all, so they were friendly and sort of "talkative" with us. Matter of fact, I think the controller even chuckled a bit when he told everyone but the lead to tun off their transponders, then told us why.
BTW, we've never gone into a class B airspace. So I guess it's good I saw this thread.

Marshall Alexander

Ron Lee · #9 11-16-2009, 04:49 PM

Why would all aircraft in a flight have transponders on in Class B?

newtech · #10 11-16-2009, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Lee

Why would all aircraft in a flight have transponders on in Class B?

This just came up this weekend. We flew to Sporty's for hot dogs on Saturday. When heading back to Evansville we flew as a flight of two. We were under the outer layer of Cincinnati's Class B so we were not talking to them but we were within the 30 mile Mode C ring. I'm assuming that the Mode C requirement applies to all planes within thirty miles. I figured it was easier to abide by the rules and apologize for a collision warning popping up on their screen than get busted for not having a transponder on within the Mode C ring. Would like to know what is appropriate for this case.