Fire Suppression System??

gbrasch · #1 01-09-2006, 06:22 PM

Anyone using a fire suppression system? Or recommend a good system? I did a search but didn't find anything. Glenn in Arizona -9A Fuselage #90623

jcoloccia · #2 01-09-2006, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbrasch

Anyone using a fire suppression system? Or recommend a good system? I did a search but didn't find anything. Glenn in Arizona -9A Fuselage #90623

Don't know the answer to your question, but here's another question along the same lines: can you actually discharge a standard ABC extinguisher in the cockpit without suffocating yourself? Never thought about it before, but now that you bring it up....

Ironflight · #3 01-09-2006, 07:36 PM

John,

I have been a Volunteer Firefighter for almost 25 years, and in my experience, there is nothing worse than discharging a dry chem extinguisher in a closed space! Sure, it'll do an adequate job of extinguishment, but boy, the mess it makes! And the powder is both corrosive and incredibly fine in texture - getting it cleaned up completely is just about impossible. Breathing? Don't! When we reload dry chem's, we wear dust masks at the least!

Find yourself a good Halon extinguisher, and ventilate the cockpit as soon as you have used it and the fire is out. It does a better job of getting rid of the fire, and leaves you with a chance of re-building should the fire prove minor. Yes, it is on the environmental "no-no" list, but hey...it's an incredibly small amount, and you will probably never use it anyway. (Besides, just think what all those primers we use put in the air!)

Of course, I have no strong opinions on the subject...

Paul
(Assistant Chief, Nassau Bay Volunteer Fire Department)

gbrasch · #4 01-09-2006, 07:58 PM

Guys, sorry, but I was talking about the engine type with the nozzles over the engine. A friend has one in his Glasair and it looks like it was easy to install and cheap insurance. Glenn

mannanj · #5 01-09-2006, 08:03 PM

I haven't had the time to do the research, but I've been looking into AFFF (aqueous film forming foam) currently used in auto racing. They use two nozzles, one for the eng. compartment, one for the cockpit. I need to research it more and talk to some friends at the local Fire Dept. Might not disperse as rapidly as halon would in an in-flight eng. compartment fire.

I don't like the idea of dry powder.

Check it out on Google. Summit Racing stocks some models. If you come up with some good info, please pass it on.

Mannan Thomason
RV-8 final stages.
mannanj at alltel dot net

gbrasch · #6 01-09-2006, 08:33 PM

Looks like Summit has several AFFF systems, this is the foam system I was looking for, thanks. My friend with the Glasair (who did not build the plane and has since been transfered and I have lost contact with him) had a 4 nozzle system at each quadrant of his engine, with the bottle mounted behind the seat, and of course, a "pull" discharge knob on the panel. Glenn.

Mike S · #7 01-09-2006, 08:40 PM

AFFF concentrate is VERY corrosive. would require stainless plumbing, plastic will stand up to the chemiclas, but not the fire.

I dont think this is a viable choice for use in an a/c------in flight fire usage would just blow away.

Also would require seperate tank for water, and concentrate, pumps, proportating equipemnent, ETC. Read this as WEIGHT, and complexity.

Unless AFFF has changed a lot from when I was working with it, you cant premix and store for a long time.

37 years in fire service, former crash crew, now retired.

Mike S.

gbrasch · #8 01-09-2006, 09:05 PM

Mike, thanks for the insight, I will have to track down my friend and find out what he had (he is in the USAF and got sent to AK). I appreciate your expertise, if I find anything more, I will post it. Glenn in AZ.

fodrv7 · #9 01-09-2006, 10:06 PM

Fire in Flight deserves a lot of thought.
Lots more discussion would be valuable.

Electrical fire. If all the electrical power is turned off, Master OFF (and the Alternator output can be removed. Is it the B lead that needs to be switched?) you should expect the fire to go out. Provided you have used aircraft grade wiriing and fire proof insulation, carpet etc. Hope you are not IFR.
Fuel Fire. If the fuel is turned off, it ought to go out. Hope there is a big flat field below.
Oil Fire. OOOOH. Pray it doesn't happen.

But, whatever fire you have, LAND ASAP is going to be the driving force.

Other fires.
A friend taxied his Glasair the length of the runway in a strong crosswind. Then he lost the downwind brake. After some thought, he shut down disembarked and after hearing a 'Pop' found smoke coming from the wheel spat. The tyre was on fire, from the overheated brake and as it had burst, the wheel spat was firmly on the ground and he had no access for his extinguisher. He tried to kick the Wheel spat to shatter it, but it was hot and rubbery. Shortly after, on hearing the fuel boiling he retired and watched the aircraft burn to the ground.
Fitting a tyre inflation hole to the wheel spat would have given him access for the extinguisher.
I see an extinguisher (as disticnt from a fire suppression system) as a device to use once you are on the ground to save the aircraft.

I, for one, would welcome any comments or related experiences.

Pete.

arffguy · #10 01-09-2006, 10:38 PM

AFFF would probably not do much in an engine compartment fire. That would be a three dimensional fire which is not what AFFF is for. AFFF is designed to be used on a standing pool of fuel. Use halon or the newer (but of course, slightly less effective-don't you just love progress?) Halotron 1 agent for a three dimensional fire. Halon or Halotron 1 are the preferred agents of choice for an engine compartment fire even per Boeing's crash charts. But the 450 pounds we carrry on our truck comes out at 16 pounds per second which means we only have 28 seconds of agent application to use to get the fire out. Dry chem works great too but then you are back to the mess, corrosiveness and breathing fine particles.