maintain without building?

[Deuskid]

Hello All...

I want to fly but at 50 and owning my own business don't have the time to build so buying makes the most sense to me.

I have mechanical aptitude and work on cars, homes ... whatever.

I'd like the 'flexibility' to do much of my own maintenance and I have a keen interest to do some experimenting with diesel engines after I develop into a seasoned pilot. I am thinking either a 7 or a 9 [or maybe a six, I'm still trying to learn how much different a 6 is than a 7].

If I buy a flying RV, may I do my own maintenance? Are there any restrictions to a owner/'not-builder'?

Thanks

John

[aadamson]

With an Experimental aircraft, you have to be issued the "repairmans certificate" in order to perform any experiments, etc. In effect, its the equivalent to an A&P, but for *that* specific airplane. They are not transferable as it relates to *who* manufactures the aircraft.

Bottom line, if you buy someone else flying airplane, you won't *legally* be able to anything more than "routine standard maint - oil changes, lightbulb changes, etc". You'd have to find a licenced A&P that would be willing to work on your airplane in order to do anything other than routine maint, this includes the annual, etc. That becomes difficult, as most don't want the liablity of signing off changes that they don't understand or didn't do.

Alan

[jcoloccia]

Originally Posted by Deuskid

Hello All...

I want to fly but at 50 and owning my own business don't have the time to build so buying makes the most sense to me.

I have mechanical aptitude and work on cars, homes ... whatever.

I'd like the 'flexibility' to do much of my own maintenance and I have a keen interest to do some experimenting with diesel engines after I develop into a seasoned pilot. I am thinking either a 7 or a 9 [or maybe a six, I'm still trying to learn how much different a 6 is than a 7].

If I buy a flying RV, may I do my own maintenance? Are there any restrictions to a owner/'not-builder'?

Thanks

John

You sound like the ideal candidate for a quickbuild.

[Bob Martin]

John,
I am in the same life situation as you and I chose to buy an RV-6...and Love it!
The good news is......
You can do anything you want too, to your expermental airplane as the owner!
The main thing you have to HIRE out is the annual and you surely can assist on that as well. Other than any transponder or static system certs.
And the annual inspection only has to be signed off by an A&P.
That is the way I read the regs.
Good Luck shopping
Bob Martin
RV-6

[aadamson]

While I'm no expert, and I didnt stay at a holiday inn express last night. You might want to check that comment a bit further.

Any modification, adding a radio, changing an antenna, fixing corrosion, fixing a rivet, etc. Can only be signed off by either a licences A&P, or the original "repairmans certificate holder" (it could be done by you as the owner, but would require that "over the shoulder" approval and signoff). While I might be wrong, even to change the vacuum filter, if you didn't build the airplane, would require either an A&P do it, or at least and "over the shoulder" signoff by a licensed A&P. And unless you find one that is willing to deal with an "experimental" or has an RV, they are hard to get to work on an experimental. Hence why having a "repairmans certificate" for a given airplane is so valuable.

Now, I'll set back and learn, and go read the regs, but that is the way I understand it.

Alan

[Deuskid]

Originally Posted by aadamson

Bottom line, if you buy someone else flying airplane, you won't *legally* be able to anything more than "routine standard maint - oil changes, lightbulb changes, etc". You'd have to find a licenced A&P that would be willing to work on your airplane in order to do anything other than routine maint, this includes the annual, etc.
Alan

Originally Posted by bob martin

You can do anything you want too, to your expermental airplane as the owner!

Hmmm... now I'm confused... maybe we can get a consensus going?

thanks,

John

[Deuskid]

Originally Posted by jcoloccia

You sound like the ideal candidate for a quickbuild.

Correct me if I'm wrong [I'm often wrong [and I'm often corrected [espcially by my 3 sons...lol]]] but...

it seems to me from my limited research that after the dust settles you can buy a flying Rv for about the same amount that it would cost to build? I love to work with my hands but really don't have the time and especially if the labor is going to be valued at a low amount.

Further, I am not even a pilot yet. As much as I like working with my hands I'd rather be flying during those hours.

Further, since I'm not experienced, I like the idea of buying someone's baby that has been tested and used by a very interested/more experienced party in the aircraft. Assuming it has 'some hours on it' its airworthness will be known.

My reasonings for buy v/ build.

Having said that I'm still interested in my own maintenance and possibly experimentation [more like beta testing as I have a friend that is about ready to start testing a toyota D4D engine on a 'swamp boat' as a beginning to putting one on his canard.

Cheers,

John

[bchriste2608]

John,

The owner of any aircraft can do a lot under the category "preventive maintenance" - FAR 43.3 (g) says: "The holder of a pilot certificate issued under Part 61 may perform preventive maintenance on any aircraft owned or operated by that pilot which is not used under Part 121, 127, 129, or 135." . . . I would assume you would be given additional latitude with an "Experimental Aircraft".

This may not be as far as you would like to go but you can do "preventive maintenance" which is at best a vague?

You can also do work under the supervision of an A&P . . . . and/or have an IA sign off your work when you are done (depending on what it was)

It's kind of odd . . . you can build anything you want . . . and fly it once someone has signed it off . . . if you follow reasonable practices you will probably be OK. I any case the owner appears to have some latitude?

Good Luck,
Bob

Originally Posted by Deuskid

Hello All...

I want to fly but at 50 and owning my own business don't have the time to build so buying makes the most sense to me.

I have mechanical aptitude and work on cars, homes ... whatever.

I'd like the 'flexibility' to do much of my own maintenance and I have a keen interest to do some experimenting with diesel engines after I develop into a seasoned pilot. I am thinking either a 7 or a 9 [or maybe a six, I'm still trying to learn how much different a 6 is than a 7].

If I buy a flying RV, may I do my own maintenance? Are there any restrictions to a owner/'not-builder'?

Thanks

John

[Bob Martin]

From EAA website:

"Non-builder Maintenance Frequently Asked Questions
I am going to buy a used homebuilt, what work can I perform myself?

FAR Part 43 specifically states that the rules of that part do not apply to experimental, amateur-built aircraft. Therefore, any work (not just maintenance) on an experimental aircraft can be performed virtually by anyone regardless of credentials. (This does not apply to the condition inspection). Let common sense be your guide as to what maintenance you conduct yourself."

"Since I don't have a Repairman Certificate, who must perform the Condition Inspection?
The inspection can be performed by any licensed A&P mechanic, an FAA Approved Repair Station, or by the original builder of the airplane provided the builder has a "Repairman Certificate" for that aircraft from the FAA. Note that unlike an annual for a type certificated aircraft, the A&P mechanic does NOT have to have his/her "Inspection Authorization". Sometimes, if you are lucky, you can include as part of the purchase that the builder will continue to perform the condition inspections."


I know there is some confusion on this topic but I hope the above clears it up!
Bob Martin
RV-6

[aadamson]

Bob,

I stand corrected. Certainly goes against what I've been told over the years, but I've never spent the time to search and read about it. Thanks for the post, that cleared up a bunch.

Alan - learning as I go