Thrid party parts and the 51% rule.

[zyskowski]

I'd like to seek folks with experience dealing with a DAR and the use of pre-owned and partially fabricated kit components for the RVs. I want to make sure that I don't inadvertently limit my ability to qualify as the manufacturer should I incorporate a previously owned/built component.

Thanks for any advice.

[Danny7]

the safe route is to think anything more than the vans standard QB could get you into trouble.

sorry, i don't have experience to back this up, but it makes sense, unless you are in a big hurry. then you need to trust whoever is "helping" you.

[Noel Simmons]

I am sure someone else has much more in depth knowledge than me. The 51% rule is between the kit manufacture (Van's) and John Q public. For example:

John Q Public #1 buys kit from Van's and drives one rivet. Documents said driven rivet and sells kit to John Q public #2

John Q Public #2 drives two more rivets, Documents said driven rivets and sells kit to John Q public #3.

John Q Public #3 drives two more rivets, Documents said driven rivets and sells kit to John Q public #4.

John Q Public #4 drives two more rivets, Documents said driven rivets and sells kit to John Q public #5.

So on and so forth as long as 51% of the aircraft has been built by someone other than the kit manufacture, and Documented, the aircraft will be eligible for an air worthiness certificate. How EVER the Last builder may have difficulty getting the repairman's certificate, because that John Q Public does not necessarily have intimate knowledge of the enter aircraft. The repairman's certificate IS NOT necessary for the ownership, or operation of an Experimental Aircraft!

The repairman's certificate is different than Air worthiness. This is why you can buy a completed RV that has an air worthiness certificate even though it has never flown.

Some one jump in here

[pierre smith]

...in that the "spirit" of the law has been upheld since the airplane was indeed, built by amateurs. Many homebuilts have passed on to be completed by others and had no problems getting licensed, some way past the quickbuild stage. In my opinion, the guy /gal who finishes the airplane, regardless of how far along it was when he bought it, is the one who will receive the Repairman's certificate.

Let's get Mel or another DAR to chime in here.

Regards,

[jnorris]

As long as the applicant can document that the major portion of the fabrication and assembly tasks have been completed by amateur builders solely for their own education and recreation (how's that for paraphrasing the regulation!) there is no problem with issuing an amateur-built airworthiness certificate to the aircraft. There is no requirement that any particular individual complete any particular percentage of the tasks. The only requirement is that the major potion (commonly referred to as 51% or more) of the tasks be completed by amateur-builders. Any number of amateur builders can be involved, either concurrently or in sequence. The applicant for the airworthiness certificate will be shown as the "builder" on all paperwork and on the aircraft's data plate, but all builders should be listed in block III of the Amateur-Built Eligibility Statement (FAA Form 8130-12).

The repairman certificate is another issue. The repairman certificate is issued to the "original primary builder". The FAA will interview the applicant for a repairman certificate in order to verify that he/she is indeed the "primary builder". In cases where aircraft have passed through several builders and the final applicant only does a small portion of the actual fabrication and assembly there may be no person who qualifies for the repairman certificate. This has no effect on the aircraft's airworthiness certificate, but does require that only an A&P mechanic perform the condition inspection since nobody qualifies as the repairman for that aircraft.

Hope this helps!

Joe

[aviationgeek84]

What about purchasing parts from 3rd-party vendors such as fairings that are more complete, etc.? Does that affect anything?

[Mel]

Originally Posted by aviationgeek84

What about purchasing parts from 3rd-party vendors such as fairings that are more complete, etc.? Does that affect anything?

It CAN if the 3rd party parts amount to a significant portion of the overall build. You will not receive credit for constructing those parts.

[zyskowski]

I appreciate all the information! Obviously not a straitforward question.

Per Joe's response, the issue I'm having seems to boil down to how much work is required to be the "primary builder". Here is the exact scenario I'm facing:

- Tail kit completed by me.
- Wing being purchsed, slow build kit fabricated by someone else but not completely done (QB+).

So if moving forward with the wing purchase, will a QB fuselage purchase from Vans elliminate enough "work" that I no longer qualify as the "primary builder". I'd like to move forward with the QB fuselage, and it seems like the work delta between a QB kit and a partially fabricated slow build wing should be "about equal" allowing me to be the "primary builder".

[Mel]

To elaborate on Joe's response, It's up to the FAA inspector as to whether or not you will qualify for the repairman certificate. I've found most inspectors to be somewhat lenient on this matter. Generally (not always) if you can convince him that you have sufficient knowledge to proficiently perform the condition inspection, he will most likely issue the repairman certificate to you.

[jnorris]

Mel is spot-on. The repairman certificate is a judgement call by the FAA inspector, so if you can present a case showing that you have thorough knowledge of the construction, systems and maintenance of the aircraft in question you will probably get the certificate. Now, if you go in and tell the inspector right off that all you did was install the prop and paint the thing you're probably going to be out of luck! Much of it is in the presentation. Just do your best to convince the inspector that you know enough about the aircraft's structure and systems so as to be able to properly inspect its condition.

Cheers!

Joe