Ignitions

[dan]

http://www.aerosparks.com

Don't forget about that one, Aerosparks. Steve Korney, the guy behind it, is a friend of mine. I don't use his system (I didn't know about it when I shopped), but it's worth looking into it as an alternative to LSE, Electroair, etc.

You can tell him I referred you to him. He hasn't tried to market it too heavily yet, but again, it's worth checking out and hearing Steve's rationale for the way his system works.

)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com

[Martin Sutter]

I have a P-Mag on my RV6 for about a hundred hours now and have been very impressed with it's performance. The increase in engine smoothness was noticable immediately and start up is instant, hot or cold. Installation was very simple since it fits on the engine just like a mag. I have noticed a drop in fuel consumption of nearly a gallon an hour in cruise. At the same cruise power setting as before I notice an increase of 3 to 4 mph in indicated airspeed or I can maintain the same airspeed as before and reduce the manifold pressure by 1". It is evident thet the P-Mag is getting more complete combustion out of the fuel charge. In cruise turning off the Slick mag has no effect at all but turning off the P- Mag results in a very noticable loss of power (rpm stays the same since I have a c.s. prop). As far as reliability is concerned so far no problems at all. My new stock Lycoming came with Slick mags and these have been anything but reliable. The first one quit at 280 hrs and the second one at 340 hrs. My previous experience with Bendix mag has been better. I am building an RV7A now and plan to equip it with two P-Mags. By the way P-Mags are in production and quite a few have been shipped already. There is however a lead time of several weeks, so plan ahead.

Martin Sutter
RV6 2300hrs

[casper]

Martin" Does it make any difference which hole you put the P-Mag in.
doyle reed
casper two

[gmcjetpilot]

Originally Posted by casper

Martin" Does it make any difference which hole you put the P-Mag in.doyle reed casper two

Yes it does, if replacing only one mag, you usually leave the impulse mag and replace the non-impulse coupled mag with the EI.

Impulse mag it the one that "snaps" or clicks every time you rotate the engine. Not a mag expert but it is easy to figure out which one it is. Looking at one you will see a flyweight assembly near the drive gear if it is removed from the engine. Also you can read the part number. Refer to the manufactures info.

For starting you want retarded timing and the impulse does this as well as spins the mag faster (in an impulse). If you try to start with a regular mag on it may not start due to too weak spark or worse could cause a kickback. All the EI are electronically retarded and you can start with the electronic ignition on as well as the impulse mag.

Note: there have been sporadic reports of starting with PM starters (which draw more current) and EI. The EI needs a min voltage and if it is too low it could cause problems, such as kick back. This is kind of a grey area, and the EI folks claim this should not be a problem with min volts between 5-8 volts, and indeed many have no problem. Solutions that have been suggested are, a second EI battery isolated from starter, wire wound starter (takes less amps than a PM starter) or start on the impulse mag (if you have it). \\Cheers George

[mark manda]

Walter is dumping his LASAR due to high CHT's. I recall reading a post where a guy installed a bypass on his LASAR on climbs. But the company will not warranty if a switch is installed.

Walter isn't going to get a good break in at 23 sq.

could be a combination of things, his baffling is perfect, but new cerminel (sp?) cylinders.

Anybody out there to explain benefits of LASAR? Regardless of cost and weight?

comments?

[gmcjetpilot]

Originally Posted by mark manda

Walter is dumping his LASAR due to high CHT's. Anybody out there to explain benefits of LASAR? Regardless of cost and weight?comments?

The LASAR has a history of high CHT's and have seen several for sale on eBay over the last year. I don't recall users of other brands of experimental EI having CHT's too high, although EI will increase CHT from more efficient (hot) combustion than a magneto. Why does the LASAR have more problems or higher CHT's? I have no idea. I have never used one and only know what I have read on AvWeb and other discussions on the web, where I read of several LASAR over temp CHT complaints.

As far as LASAR I think it is heavy and complicated being it is piggy-backed on magnetos with all the problems you have with magnetos. The main advantage is it's usable on certified planes. No doubt the fact it is piggy-backed on magnetos helped it get approved by the FAA and the reason they retained the magneto base. For experimental aircraft I say skip it and go with: LS, E/P-mag and Electroair. G

[mark manda]

thanks george,

I've followed your informative posts for quite awhile. I'd be $40,000 ahead if I'd listened to you. Actually, probably more.

I complicated matters even more after reading about someone getting stranded on the ground with a no start- with LASAR. I ordered a "Bush Kit". Allows one mag to fire so you can start the engine without LASAR. and all the complications of smaller size wires and reversed wiring to go with it.

mark

(hey, you ever spot that fast-glass intake cowl? with a plenum?

[tacchi88]

New to this chat, and perhaps late on this thread, but here's my eperience with LASAR. To begin with , it is not just electronic ignition, it is managed electronic ignition. Timing is altered constantly based on information from 3 inputs. The benifits are decrease in fuel consumption, increased cruise and top speeds, increase in climb, especially, at 10K and up, vast increase in spark plug life (near 1000 hrs). Improved starting hot and cold. Shock cooling defensive. The plane was a Piper Arrow 180 HP.. At no time were operating temperatures over recommended numbers per Lycoming. Total time before selling to pay for RV10, 800+. The RV10 will have LASAR. The bush kit will not be used as it was not used in the Arrow. I would highly recomend it to anyone. Note that it's timing map is specifically tailored for the Lycomings it will be used on. I do not work for Unison.

[penguin]

Glad you had a good experience with Lasar. The benefits of an E/P-mag, or similar, in an experimental are the ability to set plug gaps much wider (0.035 vs 0.018) giving even better performance, ability to use car plugs (much cheaper, although somewhat negated by Lasar plug life) and a much easier install. Very few unhappy, if any, E-mag customers against several people who have negative experiences with Unison/Lasar (see post by Ron Gover a week or two ago).

Pete

[tacchi88]

FYI,
LASAR also likes wider gaps. The E mag sound like a great idea, and certainly better than the old fashioned magneto we've known for more than 100 years. LASAR offers management which is the next step in the electronic ignition world. It's 1/2 of FADEC.
Certainly, if the E mag was the only game in town, I would choose it over a plain old magento, "without" reservation. But I've spend some time with managed ignition, and LASAR is a better option, unless, of course someone else come up with a similar or improved version. LASAR's timing map is also specifically for Lycoming. I don't think the E mag does. LASAR does have built in back up.
From what I've read, E mags have been on the scene for a short time, while LASAR is in it's 7th year. There are far more certified AC flying than homebuilts, particularly those Lycoming equiped. As an A&P/IA I've seen and experienced error in installation of a myriads of components, as well as just plain problems in general.
I read the previous post and find it hard to believe that there was so much problem, but it can happen, I'm sure E mags will have their share. One example of anything never makes for determining the reliability of anything.
In the end, we do have choices in our world of experimentals.
I simply chose managed electronic timing. FYI, LASAR can be diagnosed with a lap top, just in case there are problems. The lap top is for visual purposes only.