Public Build Sites - An Endangered Species?

[Sparky]

When I started building my RV7 I considered starting a public build site ala Sam Buchanan's http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal (which was arguably THE original premier build site for RV's), Dan Checkoway's rvproject.com (which has had a huge following, but no longer exists) and Richard Horan's http://www.rvproject.co.uk (which he has since abandoned, and sold his project prior to completing it - self-admittedly partly because of the pressures exerted by hosting the site) among many others. I had been monitoring these sites for months and at least partially because of them actually prompted me to make the big leap into building an RV.

I decided not to start a site, mainly because I felt the build process would be challenging enough, let alone the pressure to update a build site on a regular basis. Keeping up a site like those mentioned above is no small task. (I was also skeptical of opening up all of my potential shortfalls to public scrutiny, not to mention the Feds). Granted, I have maintained a build log, but that really doesn't compare.

These sites have been instrumental in providing guidance and unique insight into the building process not available otherwise to many, many builders.

The downsides have been well documented on VAF and within the sites themselves, including many reports of scrutiny, disrespect, etc.

Other thoughts?

[Kyle Boatright]

If comprehensive build sites are an endangered species, I submit it is because of a couple of reasons.

- Being the first guy (or gal) to thoroughly document a build makes you one of a kind. You're THE MAN! If you're the second, third, or tenth, it is hard to bring enough new ideas to the table to justify a huge investment in a web build.

- The first well documented builds (plus this forum and Matronics) have put enough information out there that there really isn't a need for new build sites. Ten years ago, it was a godsend to have Sam's site around - it was a great place (and about the only place) to go and see a finished example of whatever item you were building. Today, Sam's site is still there along with a few others, AND you can come to this forum or Matronics, ask your question, and get several replies (complete with pictures) in a couple of hours. So there really isn't a huge need for new comprehensive build sites.

[pmccoy]

I started my website as a way to keep my family and friends informed on what I was doing. Looking at many of the other sites, I feel they may have similar origins. A few sites, like the ones you mentioned above, become builder support for those that follow. I have often gone to them when I needed a bit more confidence or inspiration before starting a task. For that, I am very grateful people continue to update their websites.

As for my own site, a few people have emailed me over the years, but other then that it's kind of hard to tell if anyone other then my family even looks at it. But, I will keep posting pictures and blog entries. If for no other reason then I like to look back myself at what I was doing at various points of the build.

[Ironflight]

I have nothing but admiration for the many folks who maintain the kind of sites that you talk about Paul - mostly because I know that I could never do anything like that! I relied on a number of such RV-8 sites while I was building - this was before VAF really existed, and all the forums were yahoo groups. I got a tremendous amount of information out of those who had gone before - which is why I try to give back as much as I can to today's builders. Since I don't know how to build a web site, I contribute what I can on these and a few other forums.

I had a goal of building fairly quickly, and was wisely advised "build an airplane, not a webs site" if I wanted to stay focused. But boy I am happy that some selfless folks did both!

Paul

[SteinAir]

I think from my perspective Kyle is pretty much right on. Those of us who built the old kits that still had Van's handwritten notes on them had little information in comparison to modern kits. There was no VAF, the plans were minimalistic compared to the current kits (though still pretty decent), and there just wasn't as much info out there. People like Frank Justice and Sam were a godsend to us early builders without a ton of local support. You either visited a buddy (if you could find one) that was just ahead of you in the build, or spent lots of time calling, etc.. to figure out how to do things. Now, there is an RV being built in almost every major city - the plans are good, the web is chock full of info and the planes go together much better.

Secondly, it's a LOT of work to both build the plane and spend the time to document it properly. I started out documenting the heck out of mine...but interest in finishing the plane overtook the desire to document every day's worth of work.

Overall, I think that the ends just don't justify the means anymore...so that's where it's at! Ahhh...the good ole' days. Remembering that my first ride EVER in ANY RV was the first time I took mine off on the first flight!

My 2 cents as usual.

Cheers,
Stein

[Phil]

I'd love to do it, but the build is challenging enough. I don't think I would have the discipline required to keep the site current and fresh.

Kitlog Pro is about as close as I will ever come to having a dedicated site for the build.

[MNForrest]

What about a site that's not meant to instruct in every detail, but one that just hits the high points/tough spots/new ideas? My plan is to do just that with my -9. All using HD video. It's what I do, after all.

Stein, at some point I'm hoping you'll be in my shop helping me install my Stein-Air built panel, walking through the logic and/or whimsy of the instrumentation selection, showing how not to crimp a lead, etc.

When the first flight rolls around (2014?), maybe Paul Dye grants me a nice interview explaining the process/philosophy of a sound flight testing program (not an endless outline), then talks me out of making the first flight myself.

The "traditional" build site my be a thing of the past. What's the build site of the future? That's what I want to do. Maybe it's not about teaching people to build. Maybe it's just taking them along for the ride. Strictly inspiration.

Forrest

[llavalle]

I've got one of this website. Not as much details as on RvProject (RIP) but it's comprehensive.

I'm a software programmer so I don't waste a lot of time writing something up. I setted up a blog software (Wordpress) and a gallery software (Menalto Gallery). Both were free.

To create a new article on my website I start up "Gallery Remote" a small program on my computer : I drag & drop the pictures I want uploaded. They get resized and thumbnailed automaticly. Then I open up the "admin" webpage of my blog. Using a small plugin that link Gallery and Wordpress (WPG2) I insert the pictures in the text box (in a small popup, I add checkmarks beside the images I want then hit "INSERT").

I then add a bit of text between the images and hit the "Publish" button. It takes around 5-15min to complete an entry. It then appears on the webpage.

Take a look at my website : http://www.llavalle.ca/ . It's in french but you'll get a good idea.

The webcam(link in signature) is also pretty easy. I've got a laptop running "YawCam" (also free). It snaps pictures where there is movement and upload them to the website automaticly. Nothing else to do!

I had a manually updated website (using Dreamweaver templates) before and it was a pain to update. The goal with this one (Wordpress + Gallery) was to make the whole process easy.

For hosting, I'm using Godaddy. Paid something like $50 for 12months. It's cheap.

[bamajenk]

I've been dreaming, planning, preparing, hoping, and crossing my fingers to get the chance to build an RV-12. Through this site, Vans' site, and others, the BEST build log I've found for the -12 is Marty Santic's site from Iowa.

http://www.martysrv12.blogspot.com/

keep the great pics and info coming Marty! You are inspiring to many!

[thallock]

Sparky,

Keeping a website is a huge time sink, but there is no better way to let your friends and family know what you are up to. I don't really see these sites going away anytime soon. Sam's site is a great resource, and an entertaining read. However, just because Dan's site is gone doesn't mean that there are no more good sites left. Just go to Van's website and check out all of the links for each type of RV. Plenty of good place to go to get another opinion on how to do some things that are not so well documented in the plans.

I do have a little concern with part of your reason not to do a website:

Originally Posted by Sparky

(I was also skeptical of opening up all of my potential shortfalls to public scrutiny, not to mention the Feds).

If you are really doing something that you do not want anyone to see, then I would suggest that maybe you shouldn't be building a airplane. Peer review is an important part of the educational part of building an airplane. If you are afraid of criticism, then do a better job--it just may save your life. If I am doing anything that is questionable, and I cannot defend it, then maybe I shouldn't be doing it.

So, put yourself out there, let everyone see what you are doing, and do a good job. Maybe you are doing something that others can use. The idea that all of the good practices and improvements for building an RV have been made is a little narrow minded. Just my opinion.

Cheers,
Tracy.