VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics


Go Back   VAF Forums > Main > RV General Discussion/News
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-12-2009, 12:59 PM
Dayton Murdock's Avatar
Dayton Murdock Dayton Murdock is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Carson City NV
Posts: 550
Default Fuel Economy

Hi All
last Monday I went to Corvallis with my wife. Going up the numbers were.
ALT 10500, IAS 135 ,TAS 161 RPM 2500@ 7.3 GPH, coming back I went higher and ran all out. ALT 13500, IAS 140 ,TAS 181 RPM 2700@ 8.2 GPH.
If I change my advance to 39degs will I get better gas mileage?
Do I need to repitch my prop for better fuel economy?
__________________
Dayton Murdock
VAF#408 RV4 N359DM Flying 1046 hrs 7/16/19
Builder Log
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-12-2009, 01:31 PM
flytoboat's Avatar
flytoboat flytoboat is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Collinsville, IL
Posts: 620
Default MPH or knots?

Dayton,
Are your air speed numbers MPH or knots?
Thanks,
__________________
Don
VAF #1100, EAA864
-6A bought flying
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-12-2009, 01:38 PM
Mike S's Avatar
Mike S Mike S is offline
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,408
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Murdock View Post
If I change my advance to 39degs will I get better gas mileage?
What type of ignition do you have???
__________________
Mike Starkey
VAF 909

Rv-10, N210LM.

Flying as of 12/4/2010

Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011

Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.

"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-12-2009, 02:19 PM
Dayton Murdock's Avatar
Dayton Murdock Dayton Murdock is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Carson City NV
Posts: 550
Default

Hi Mike
I have two P-mags with NGK Iridium spark plugs

Hi Flytoboat
here it is in MPH
ALT 10500, IAS 155mph ,TAS 185mph, RPM 2500@ 7.3 GPH, coming back I went higher and ran all out. ALT 13500, IAS 161 ,TAS 208, RPM 2700@ 8.2 GPH.

Hi Rivethead
thanks for the wonderful comments about my album, I never made it to Montana.
__________________
Dayton Murdock
VAF#408 RV4 N359DM Flying 1046 hrs 7/16/19
Builder Log
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-12-2009, 03:17 PM
kentb's Avatar
kentb kentb is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Canby, Oregon
Posts: 1,786
Default Seems a little surprising...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Murdock View Post
Hi Mike
I have two P-mags with NGK Iridium spark plugs

Hi Flytoboat
here it is in MPH
ALT 10500, IAS 155mph ,TAS 185mph, RPM 2500@ 7.3 GPH, coming back I went higher and ran all out. ALT 13500, IAS 161 ,TAS 208, RPM 2700@ 8.2 GPH.

Hi Rivethead
thanks for the wonderful comments about my album, I never made it to Montana.
185/7.3 = 25.34 mpg
208/8.2 = 25.36 mpg

You got better economy when you flew high and faster. I thought that the speed would go down.

Kent
__________________
Kent Byerley
RV9A N94KJ - IO320, CS, tipup
AFS 3500, TT AP, FLYING....
Canby, Or
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-12-2009, 03:25 PM
hevansrv7a's Avatar
hevansrv7a hevansrv7a is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 1,587
Default high and fast = efficient

Quote:
Originally Posted by kentb View Post
185/7.3 = 25.34 mpg
208/8.2 = 25.36 mpg

You got better economy when you flew high and faster. I thought that the speed would go down.

Kent
According to Jack Norris ( http://propellersexplained.com/ ) he did it right.
__________________
H. Evan's RV-7A N17HH 240+ hours
"
We can lift ourselves out of ignorance, we can find ourselves as creatures of excellence and intelligence and skill. We can be free! We can learn to fly!" -J.L. Seagull
Paid $25.00 "dues" net of PayPal cost for 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018 (December).
This airplane is for sale: see website. my website

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-12-2009, 03:51 PM
Ron Lee's Avatar
Ron Lee Ron Lee is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,275
Default

Don't know if you have a fixed pitch (FP) prop but I "thought" that you should not be able to get 2700 RPM at 13,500' with a FP prop.

If that is true then does that mean you need more pitch and if so what does that do for speed/economy?

I have the same question.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-12-2009, 04:39 PM
Mike S's Avatar
Mike S Mike S is offline
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,408
Default

P-mags, Got it.

I suggest checking with the folks who make P-mags, see what they have to say.

Increasing spark advance can, theoretically give more power/better fuel consumption. At certain RPM, and loads, that is.

Big rub is what does it do the rest of the time.

Understanding how advancing the timing will help understand the side effects.

First, the way to get more power is all about pushing down on the piston with more force, (and to a lesser quantity, for a longer time)------AND, doing so at the correct time. Push too hard too soon, and really bad things happen, bent rod, cracked piston, etc. This can come from too much advance in the spark, or from pre-ignition. Too soon------the timing is measured in degrees BTDC-----Before Top Dead Center, this is degrees of crankshaft rotation before the piston gets to the top. You are actually pushing the piston in the wrong direction, but it is such a little push it doesnt hurt things. Actually helps develop proper cylinder pressure at the correct time in the piston movement/crank rotation.

As you go up in the air, the air gets thinner, which causes a loss of power----DUH, aviation 101. What happens is there is less air to fill the cylinders, and then when the plug fires the lesser volume of air/fuel creates less less pressure on the piston. Advancing the timing allows a longer time for the fuel/air to expand, and thus a little harder push on the piston. Also, a less dense charge burns slower------

The idea here it to achieve optimum cylinder pressure at the correct time of the crank rotation. Ballpark is easy, optimum is hard, and can be dangerous if you miss it

Nutshell explanation, but enough for this discussion.

Now, do the same advance down low, where there is more air density, and things can get a bit harry Remember the BTDC is before the piston starts going the way we want to push it. When we are closer to sea level, we get more fuel/air in the cylinder, and a better burning of that mixture, than when we are at altitude. And, a faster burning mixture. So, too much advance will actually hurt performance, and your engine also.

O.K., lots of electrons were hurt explaining this ------- and if you were already aware of it all, I apologize for getting a bit wordy.

So, to get back to the question, if advance can be controlled to only occur at the right conditions, and in the right amount, then yes, you should see increased efficiency.

Do the P-mags control advance with RPM, and MP?? if you change the advance to 39* will it change the static timing? How much is the advance currently set at???

My poor finger is getting tired from all this typing
__________________
Mike Starkey
VAF 909

Rv-10, N210LM.

Flying as of 12/4/2010

Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011

Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.

"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."

Last edited by Mike S : 08-12-2009 at 04:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-13-2009, 02:38 AM
Steve Sampson Steve Sampson is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: N. Yorkshire, England
Posts: 1,050
Default A and B curve

Dayton, I have no experience of flying at those heights. Here in the UK there is airspace everywhere, and most of the time it forces you down dodging the weeds.

I have used the A and B curves on my twin p-mags. (Carbd O-320 with MT prop.) The effect of switching to the B-curve (more advanced) was to bring the EGT down and the CHT up. That made intuitive sense to me, I figured the fuel was getting burned in the cyl., not the exhaust, therefore doing useful work. My sense was I got a little more power, but very hard to prove.

Since the -4 cools so well I was quite pleased to see the CHT a little higher. In practical ops I never see it get to 400F on any cyl. A full power climb will take it over this, but after 4000' at 120mph it is only going through 400 slowly and a small power reduction, bring the prop back a little, will hold it at 400.

I have enlarged the jet though. You can see some info here, , secod post down, but thats all after I changed to the B curve.

I would certainly switch to B but just log the CHT and EGT 'till you are confident.

Good luck,
__________________
Steve

G-IKON Build log here , or Index to blog here.
RV4 #4478 - Flying since 16th June '08. First flight video here.
Circuits at my 1000' strip.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:44 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.