Buying a Project

DaAV8R · #1 07-30-2009, 02:08 PM

After owning a certified airplane for many years, I have the itch to build an RV. Probably an 8. I notice there are many partially completed kits on the market, often at a reduced cost. I have the following questions about completing a partially assembled kit.

1) What is the FAA's view on completing a project started by someone else? Any problem getting the repair certificate?

2) When did VAN's introduce the pre-punched kits? Does the use of pre-punched skins essentially assure the parts are built straight and true?

3) I notice some of the ads list phlogistan spars. Are there different spars floating around? Any other major pitfalls to watch out for?

I appreciate your advise.

pierre smith · #2 07-30-2009, 02:28 PM

...and welcome to VAF.

As long as the airplane is built by individuals and not a "factory", you're not violating the spirit of the rule. As long as the airplane is 51% amateur-built, you're good to go and can get the Repairman certificate. At some point or another, all builders need help, whether it's a buddy lying in the fuse bucking rivets or helping hang the engine, it's acceptable. The rule is severely violated when you just write a check for someone else to build your plane.

Pre-punched airplanes are indeed self-aligning and don't need jigs as the older airplanes did but it also saves you a tremendous amount of time. The older airplanes had you draw a line down the ribs and then measure 1 1/4" spacing marks, drill the holes, then duplicate the process on the skins!! Whew. Same for the fuse.

Regards, and welcome,

caryr · #3 07-30-2009, 02:29 PM

I am amazed at how well the prepunched skins align.

If you attempt to cleco it and it doesn't fit. Check your work because you are doing something wrong. The parts are correct and true.

Mel · #4 07-30-2009, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaAV8R

After owning a certified airplane for many years, I have the itch to build an RV. Probably an 8. I notice there are many partially completed kits on the market, often at a reduced cost. I have the following questions about completing a partially assembled kit.

1) What is the FAA's view on completing a project started by someone else? Any problem getting the repair certificate?
It doesn't matter who or how many people participate in the project, so long as they are doing it for recreation and education and not for hire.

2) When did VAN's introduce the pre-punched kits? Does the use of pre-punched skins essentially assure the parts are built straight and true?
Different pre-punched kits were introduced at different times. The use of pre-punched skins will only fit if the underlying structure is straight and true. (within reason)

3) I notice some of the ads list phlogistan spars. Are there different spars floating around? Any other major pitfalls to watch out for?
Phlogistan is the only supplier of pre-built spars that I am aware of. And I believe they are standard on most kits now.

I appreciate your advise.

Words added to allow posting.

JHines · #5 07-30-2009, 03:14 PM

Hi Mel,

Could you clarify, I thought there was a difference between meeting the "51% Rule" and qualifying for the repairman certificate... (i.e. in some cases a plane could be certified as amateur-built but no one would eligible for the rep. cert.?)

Mel · #6 07-30-2009, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHines

Hi Mel,

Could you clarify, I thought there was a difference between meeting the "51% Rule" and qualifying for the repairman certificate... (i.e. in some cases a plane could be certified as amateur-built but no one would eligible for the rep. cert.?)

Believe it or not, there is SOME gray area concerning qualification for the repairman certificate. If you can convince the FAA inspector that you have built a significant portion of the aircraft and can COMPETENTLY perform the condition inspection, he may issue you the repairman certificate.
Only one repairman certificate may be issued for any one aircraft. If an aircraft is built by a group of individuals, the group may determine who is most qualified for the certificate.

Noah · #7 07-31-2009, 10:36 AM

As a buyer of a project already started by a previous builder, I can tell you the following, after researching it with Vans, my local FSDO, and my DAR.

1. Get a signed statement from the original builder indicating that all of his work was performed for education and recreation.
2. Get copies of all of his build logs, photos, weblogs, and any other records he kept to show that he actually did the work.
3. The repairman certificate has nothing to do with the 51% rule. The application for the repairmans certificate says that the applicant is eligible if he is the "PRIMARY BUILDER" of the aircraft per FAR 65.104 (not 51% of the aircraft). Obviously this is open to debate so best to contact your FSDO and DAR / ABDAR up front to ensure that the work left to do will still qualify you for the repairmans cert.

You will also need to transfer the builder number from the original guy to you. A call to Vans will make that happen, at which point you can buy parts from Vans, be eligible for discounts on engines and props, etc.

Good luck.