Student Pilot flying RV during test phase hours

[RV_7A]

Hello all, I have a scenerio I'd like to pose to CFI's out there.

I am building an RV-7A and would like to do my flight training in it. Is it possible to get flight training in an RV up until I am ready to solo and is it possible to fly off the test phase hours on my own RV while soloing? I'm sure many will think I'm crazy for even considering this but since I'm the one building my plane I would have no problem with it. Otherwise I would like to have someone fly off my test phase hours and then solo in my own plane.

Basically I would like to do as much training as possible in my own plane.


-Jeff

[Kahuna]

Excluding the "your crazy part", there is nothing that procludes you from doing that.

Your solo endorcement will determine what you can fly. Usually SEL (Sinle Engine Land) or something to that effect.
I just recently watched a 16 year old STUDENT solo an extra300. (Whiz kid). Since that what his dad owns and thats what he learned in, then thats what he flies. He has a few hours in a CJ too. It could be anything. Its all relative in my book.

Best

[drill_and_buck]

Jeff:

A C-152 or similar trainer will be a lot more foregiving than a RV-7A. Flare a little bit to high, or strike the nose wheel a bit to hard and the C-152 will survive. Not to sure that the RV-7A would.

Debugging an airframe and learning to fly are two separate skills. If a problem occurs during your test flight stage will you be able to determine in a split second if the cause of the problem is the airframe or the pilot?

Keep in mind that you will make some mistakes during your early solo hours. Hopefully they will only be small ones and recoverable. Why risk your airframe?

Train in a trainer.

Good luck,

Mike
RV-8 Finish

[deene]

Hi Jeff. This is a complex subject. Why don't you give me a call and we can discuss the details of your situation. I'm in Round Rock at 423-5332.

In any case, as a CFII and EAA Flight Advisor, I would not recommend your proposed course of action. I also doubt that you will be able to find an instructor that will endorse a student ticket for solo in a RV-7A for an initial solo or during phase I flight test period.

I would think you might be able to find someone to give you training in your RV after the flight test period and certainly a RV7A (or even 7, 6, or 6A) would be OK for training. I've have given a student pilot (post solo) training in his RV6A with no problems.

Another consideration is that many instructors prefer to do the initial solo training in a GA trainer. I would say that although "some" students would do just fine with a more responsive, wider performance range aircraft such as the RV, it often is the case that with the free time and money pressures on most student pilots, along with the wider range of student abilities, a GA trainer is better suited.

Now for the case of flight test, its very rare for the test pilot to have less than several hundred hours of experience in a variety of planes, especially during flying the first 5-10 hours. Most builders feel that they have too much time and money invested and want an experienced test pilot for the initial flights and perhaps for the whole flight test period. If they fit the bill, then with good prep and training, the testing usually goes well given the good design, builder support, and handling with an RV.

YMMV.

Deene Ogden
CFII, MEI, CFIG
EAA Flight Advisor, EAA Technical Counselor

[RV_7A]

Excellent info! Deene, I'll call you this weekend if you will be available. I have quite a few friends (previous RV owners) that would love to fly off my test phase hours so I'm pretty sure I could get that done within a week or so

Ideally, I hope to take a month off from work and fly almost everyday. I feel that my learning curve would be much higher than just flying a couple hours once or twice a month.

-Jeff

[JCN247DE]

Hi Jeff,

I'll weigh in here as a low time pilot (337 hrs.) with almost all of my time in C-152's, 172's, 182's, 206, citabria, and several "scare you to death" ultralights.

I test flew my -7A myself after 10 take off and landings in my friend's 6A. I did not receive transition training on a professional level. I currently have 22 hrs on the plane over the last 2 months. I chose to not insure my plane while in motion as well. Call me crazy, stupid, or anything but a Piper lover, but it's a choice we all make differently.

Am I saying this is the right thing to do? No, just a personal choice. The -7A is a very honest, stable, predictable plane. However, it will turn your mistakes into a bad situation much faster than say a 152 would. Having said this, both will kill you just as dead if you get too slow while too low and you are behind the plane.

Back in the day, RVers did not have the ability to transition train as we do now. Were the stats worse then for very low time RV accidents as a % of population? I don't know.

I can tell you this though. On my first long X-country during the student pilot days I made the mistake of thinking I could land a 152 in a gusting X-wind that was right at its max x-wind component. Result = 2 roller coaster go arounds, side bouncing the plane down the runway almost slamming a tip into the ground (on a high wing!) striking the prop tip and trashing the nose gear tire rim.

It was an incredibly, humbling lesson that showed me I was not as good as I thought I was and that I was still behind the airplane. I'm positive that if I would have been in the situation in my -7A with just a few hours under my belt; I would be typing this from a hospital room, rehab, or not typing it at all...

Just an opinion, go beat up a spam can when you are working on your touch, confidence and beginning your search for the perfect landing.

Jeff

[Mr. Mikey]

I like to think of things in terms of risk management. If you think about how much time, effort and $ you have poured into your airplane, do you really want to destroy it the first time you fly it?

Compare the cost to that of rental on a 152 for 50 hours or so. They really are great airplanes until you try to go cross country. But in the pattern, they are fun, forgiving and teaching airplanes.

There's no shortage of stories out here in cyberspace about the 16 year old soloing a 747 after 45 minutes of dual instruction, or whatever. Forget about those. What matters to you is your situation.

Are you willing to risk it?

[Jamie]

Hi Jeff:

I'll hold off on all the comments regarding whether or not this is a smart decision. I agree that it depends upon the person. My recommendation is to go beat up a 172 trainer. Better yet, try a Diamond Eclipse -- generally better avionics, free castering nose wheel (despite the fact that many people think this design is weird or unique on the RV), bubble canopy, sticks between the knees and about ~15 knots faster than a -172, if I remember correctly. The Eclipse's at our airport have 430's with GTX-330 transponders and are CHEAPER to rent than the 172Rs and are a **** of a lot more fun. I would say the only flying characteristic that is dramatically different from a 172 is the T-tail on the Eclipse. The prop-wash does not have (as much as) a direct effect on the h-stab, but this is generally not even noticeable except when you're behind the power curve in slow flight. Oh yeah, if you're a subscriber to the pagan worship of aircraft building materials the Eclipse may not be for you since it's a plastic plane.

The US Airforce seems to deem Eclipse's worthy since the Academy is using them now.

If you haven't seen them, here's the Eclipse I'm flying these days:


At any rate, you'll probably have difficulty getting a CFI to sign you off for solo during the Phase I. Since during Phase I only 'required crew' is permitted I would say that this probably excludes flight training. I can't imagine a CFI endorsing someone's solo flight in an aircraft in which they never flew with the student.

[mgomez]

According to the FAA's AC 20-27, "CERTIFICATION AND OPERATION OF
AMATEUR-BUILT AIRCRAFT

(2) Flight Instruction. You may not receive flight instruction during your flight test.

[RV_7A]

Anyone here get all their flight training in an RV from the get go?