LSE Plasma II/III versus Electroair EI Systems

[rvmills]

In a separate thread I've outlined my troubleshooting trials and tribs of my LSE Plasma I EI, which has ended in the need for replacement.

In researching options, if I stay with an EI, I'm looking into upgrading to the LSE Plasma III, or changing to the Electroair system (formerly known as the Jeff Rose EI).

I'm looking for, and would really appreciate, comparitive feedback from VAF comrades that have used or are using either the LSE Plasma II/III EI (especially with the direct crank sensor), and/or the Electroair/Jeff Rose EI system. Performance, reliability, ease of installation/servicing, and customer service/support are the metrics I'm most interested in, but all feedback is welcome. Request no public mfgr bashing, though honest positive or negative feedback (couched appropriately) is appreciated (I'm hoping this is deemed appropriate by the forum mods, and just want to keep it above-board, per DR's forum guidelines).

Especially valuable would be feedback from those that have experience with both systems, but all info is really welcome, to add to my ongoing research.

I've noted some differences in the two systems, such as LSE's capacitance discharge versus EA's direct fire spark system. Each uses different plugs and wires, and EA's system can use auto or aircraft plugs/wires. The timing sensors are quite different, and at this point in my research, the EA sensor seems like a more straight forward install, and it appears timing is adjustable more easily in the field on the EA system. However, it appears that there are more LSE systems in the field (unscientific observation).

So please, hit me with your experience, and feel free to also contact me via PM or e-mail at rvmills@sbcglobal.net. Thanks very much, in advance!

Cheers,
Bob

[f1rocket]

Bob,

A number of fliers in our area have had trouble getting the Jeff Rose unit to work on 540's. They ended up pulling them. They seem to work great on the 4-bangers but not so on the 6's.

I had a Lightspeed II on my Rocket and never had an ounce of trouble with it. Two things that I think made it trouble free. One, I mounted the "brain box" inside the cabin rather than on the firewall. Two, I was extra careful in crimping and supporting the coax to and from the coils.

[breister]

There are anecdotal reports that the LS III may not be as reliable as the II; however, no one seems to have hard numbers.

That said, there also seems to be no real evidence beyond vendor claims that the III is superior to the II. While there have been reports of IIIs overheating, I personally haven't heard of that being a problem for the II. On my last plane, I had a II forward of the firewall with no issues (back is undoubtedly better).

You might save a few bucks there with a II rather than a III.

[Mike S]

Here is a link to the system we talked about.

I dont know anyone using it, hopefully somebody will have input here. Hint

Basically turns your mags into a hybrid electronic system, but no timing advance built in.

[rvmills]

Thanks guys, some good feedback so far.

Randy, do you recall the issues that occured with the 540's? I just test flew a Rocket with an IO-540 that has a Jeff Rose EI, and will ask him if he's had any issues as well. Gives me some more things to ask the new mfgr about too.

Bill and Randy, LSE now says that Plasma IIs are not available for a 6 cylinder engine, only IIIs are applicable now. Must be a change from earlier product availability. I have seen the discussion on II versus III (longer spark duration, potentially faster coil/plug wear, etc.) and will dig into that with questions as well.

Mike, the G3I looks interesting, though even more to buy/install/set up. Would be interesting to see if anyone posts experience with that system.

Keep it comin' team VAF... and thanks again very much!!

Cheers,
Bob

[f1rocket]

The problem was that it didn't work. There would be wild timing swings that couldn't be explained. RocketBob probably remembers more of the details as he helped work on the Orange Rocket that had these replaced. I'm not sure if this is old news or not so they might have fixed this problem when the new owners took over the operation. RocketBob was interested in putting these on his Rocket he is building because he has them on his RV-6 and they have been flawless, but I think he's going in another direction. Maybe he will see this thread and chime in.

The auto plugs are so cheap, I wouldn't worry about the wear factor. Just drop a new set in when you condition inspect. When I read about the problems others have experienced with the Lightspeed units, nearly all of them had the brain box on the firewall. Fix that and you'll fix most of the problems. Now, I never had a problem with arcing inside the BNC connector and I know that has been a problem for some. I really can't explain that one, it just never happened to me.

[Pat Hatch]

Bob, here's another data point for you. I have Jeff's system on my RV-6 (one side only) and dual Plasma II's on the RV-7. RV-6 first flew 7/2002, RV-7 5/2004. Both systems have been virtually trouble free. On the Rose system, I had to send back the MAP sensor for a deteriorated hose. He sent it back with a new, better hose they're using now, all for $20 total. The Rose system has the mag hole timer and aviation spark plugs. I didn't like the way the wires attached to the plugs, but he has a new system that is virtually the same as a Slick mag that works much better. He used to have you put a dab of RTV on the end of the wire where it screwed into the plug which was really Mickey Mouse, but that's gone now. I forget what I paid for that upgrade, wasn't much.

On the LSE's, I have the auto plugs, ring-gear timing, and the units mounted behind the firewall (I highly recommend this), and my only complaint really is that at annual time, I have to remove the plug adapters to run my compression check and then put them back in with proper torque, anti-seize, etc. Kind of a hassle, I'm sure there is a fitting that I could get to eliminate the need to remove the adapters, but I've just been lazy about finding it. Also, and I am assuming most people modify the Lightspeeds with the Bob Nuckolls coax wire system, you have to be careful about crimping the coax connectors properly. Even with the dual Lightspeeds, I have had not one mechanical problem in 5 years.

So which one do I prefer? I like them both, Jeff's for its simplicity and ease of installation, and LSE's for possibly better customer response and more up-to-date engineering. As for performance, not sure I can tell the difference between the two. The time I lost the MAP sensor, the loss in performance was quite dramatic, thought I had a sick engine (I guess I did). And keep in mind all the failure did was change the timing from whatever back to 25 degrees BTDC.

[Radomir]

Pat, there's a 14mm fitting so you don't have to remove the adapters.. I think ATS has it.. quite inexpensive..

http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/de....aspx?PageNo=2

That's the direct link..

[rvmills]

Randy,

Thanks for the additional info, and good gouge all around. My brain box is (was) under the panel and will stay there with this upgrade/transition (concur with you guys, that's the way to go). Had new coax made up by the local avionics guys a while back, and they look top notch, so hopefully that won't be an issue. On the JR/EA systems, it'll be interesting to see what changes have been made, and it'll be interesting to hear RocketBob's feedback. Thanks again!

Pat, great comparison, thanks much! Good things to consider and keep digging into. I have the same issue with the adapters during condition inspection, and Rado, thanks for the lead on the fitting!

Thanks for taking the time to chime in guys, really appreciate it!!

Cheers,
Bob

[Pat Hatch]

Originally Posted by Radomir

Pat, there's a 14mm fitting so you don't have to remove the adapters.. I think ATS has it.. quite inexpensive..

That's the direct link..

Hey thanks, Rado. I have it on order!