What happens when the engine stops OR you have an engine because you needed it

gmcjetpilot · #1 11-30-2005, 01:04 PM

This is a 44 second video of an ultra light. The most interesting thing happens in the last 4 seconds of the video.

http://www.killsometime.com/video/video.asp?ID=382

What made an impression on me was when the engine quit it stopped flying, fast. What I thought of is mental preparedness.

Lesson I am reminded of is altitude and speed is life. When flying low to the ground (takeoff , landing or strafing) when the fan stops turning you will be landing soon. The more altitude you have the more........................

Flying low can be fun , a pet sin most of us have done, but it can be very hazardous.

In RV's we climb at a fairly high deck angle. The delta pitch from full power climb to engine out nose low decent is dramatic, so be ready to lower the nose quickly if the engine stops. Before every departure have an engine out plan rehearsed in your mind whether you say it out loud or not. Be ready to lower the nose, fly the plane to the ground, don't stall and take what is coming directly ahead or slightly off to one side. CFI hat off

George

Also flying low over trees is may be not a great idea. Just for fun
http://www.dumpalink.com/media/11318...ltitude_flying
http://www.leenks.com/link28690.htm

jcoloccia · #2 11-30-2005, 01:16 PM

I've never flown an ultralight so I don't know how they handle, but is it SOP to pull back on the elevator as hard as possible when your engine dies? Maybe they don't have enough authority to stall at that slow of a speed? I dunno...

John_RV4 · #3 11-30-2005, 04:02 PM

I wonder if he just reacted reflexively to the trees rushing up to meet him. I wonder how many of us would react the same way under the circumstances :-(.

On the other hand, maybe he had excess airspeed that he was trying to burn to slow his decent rate.

Yeah, that's it....

John

tacchi88 · #4 11-30-2005, 04:30 PM

It appears that it was a "natural" thing to do, pul up. Best was to not fly behind a 2 stroke engine, ULs are supposed to have the ability to g\"glide" on back to terra firma. I guess it may not be so.

jcoloccia · #5 11-30-2005, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John_RV4

I wonder if he just reacted reflexively to the trees rushing up to meet him. I wonder how many of us would react the same way under the circumstances :-(.

On the other hand, maybe he had excess airspeed that he was trying to burn to slow his decent rate.

Yeah, that's it....

John

Actually, it was a serious question. I've flown some model aircraft where the best thing to do to get it back in one piece if you where going down into trees, or something, was to haul back on the elevator. It wouldn't stall....it'd just kinda' slow down and mush forward.

joe gremlin · #6 11-30-2005, 10:34 PM

He did a great job mounting that camera. Flying the plane? Not so much.

I've never flown ULs but I've been told they tend to glide like a toolbox. I always figured that was why so many of them had balistic chutes.

fodrv7 · #7 12-01-2005, 06:09 AM

RVs don't glide well but they are very different to the aircraft in the video.
That aircraft type is all thrust and drag and no weight, so when the fan stops there is no inertia to keep it going. It will behave like a parachute being dragged through the air would if the thrust failed.

But George is right. In an RV you still need to get the nose down quickly to maintain a good airspeed.
Pete.

flyerfly · #8 12-01-2005, 01:39 PM

After watching this clip several times I think this guy did all he could do based on how high he was. He first tried a left turn to the road until he saw he was sinking to fast...then he leveled out to pan cake into the trees...he basically pulled back on the stick just before he hit the trees. This was basically his flare to a crash....I would have done the same just before I hit the trees!

That kind of sink rate is what you get with a high drag light plane for sure...kinda like when I was a kid and jumped off the roof with a large beach umbrella

only I did not have a camera viewing my "landing".

Hopefully the guy survived the bush wacking.

Jon

gmcjetpilot · #9 12-01-2005, 08:38 PM

Thanks for the input, all good comments,

but my comment or point is flying low gives you little time in any plane. So be mentally prepared to land in short order during takeoffs or landings if the engine quits. I agree he pulled back in the last few second to "flare" into the trees. However many people loose control or stall their plane during an engine out for many reasons, but they are usually preventable from a mind set (prepared), skill and practice.

The one case that came to mind was a guy who lost his power on takeoff (in a RV) and did not dump nose down quick enough; he pancaked in. The damage to the plane looked nominal but unfortunately the pilots injuries where fatal. If he would have pushed the nose down and flown to the ground he may(?) have survived. That was the intent of the initial post, be ready to lower the nose and take what is coming, stalling is usually a bad news, unless you are just about to down (or crash into trees).

Practice:

Go up to 3000 agl; establish a full power climb at Vx; at 500 feet above your start altitude chop power to idle and do nothing; hold the stick steady for a few seconds; recover from sink or stall.

>How long does it take to stall? (seconds)
>How much altitude did you loose to recover (with out power) to 100 mph?
>What is your sink rate when you first recover?

Do it again; this time lower the nose immediately and "fly back" to the starting altitude and flair to zero sink (no power).

>How many seconds did the whole thing take, from power loss to flair at base altitude?

What I know is it'll happen fast. Also the pitch-up to pitch-down attitude may be more than you think, to get best-glide speed with min altitude loss.

Again very good observations I did not notice myself. George

L.Adamson · #10 12-01-2005, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmcjetpilot

That was the intent of the initial post, be ready to lower the nose and take what is coming, stalling is usually a bad news, unless you are just about to down (or crash into trees).

Yes, the "very last second" stall can be a good thing! Last winter, within eye sight of my home, we had an out of state pilot unfamiliar with this area, flying a Cessna 310 parallel to a 12,000' mountain range, when he decided a fuel stop was in order due to headwinds.

Using a gps, he descended towards the airport, not knowing that some scattered clouds were actually hiding a 6000' mountain that juts out 90 degrees to the other.

When terrrain suddenly filled the windscreen, the pilot pushed both throttles full forward, and with no other choice, hauled back on the yoke. He heard the stall horn just as the Cessna hit the terrain in a nose high attitude. In this case, the stall dissipated the forward speed to the point, that the 310 caught a wingtip & then flipped over in one piece on a 45 degree upslope, approx. 300' above a subdivision. The aircraft, although beat up, still remained pretty much intact, and the pilot and passenger escaped with just a few scratches.

Moral of this story ------- get a GPS with terrain features and terrain warning, just in case!