Initial training in an RV?

[gtmule]

Is this a completely crazy idea? I work with a guy who is a high-time former military/airline pilot and CFI. I've mentioned that I want an RV after getting my ticket, and he keeps saying, why wait? Other than finding an instructor willing to do it, is this a bad idea? why?

I'm thinking a fixed pitched -4 with steam gages......

Crazy, or not?

Thanks,
Chuck

[Geico266]

I just ferried an RV-9A from Kelso, Washington to Lincoln, NE for a guy that bought it to do his entire ticket in it. He just could not get used to the idea of renting a Cessna 150. Can't say as I blame him.

The only RV that can't be used as a trainer is a -3.

[rv7charlie]

The -4 that I currently own was built by someone who then learned to fly in it. It has back seat rudder pedals but no throttle in back. The builder told me that his instructor kept him in back until he could land it with just rudder & then they switched places for the rest of their training. (FWIW, I learned the same way in a Luscombe 8A, that has no brakes on the right side.)

Go for it.

If you need a -4 with 'experience', let me know; it'll soon be time to sell mine when I get a little closer to flying the -7.

Charlie

[Adam Oke]

It really does not matter what equipment you use, but more so the quality of instruction. You could go learn in a Pitts Special if you want to.

There are pro's and con's regarding 'ease' of a training aircraft. Realistically the easier the aircraft, the less of a deterrent it will be to a student. Not being able to get those landings down in a Pitt's Special vs. a C150 are entirely different hills to climb. Both easy hills to climb when taught well. It's proven that the easier the aircraft is will equate to how hard the student is on them self regarding motivation, and determination. If you're up to the challenge; take it by the horns.

I say learn right the first time. Learn on a conventional aircraft. Learn what stick and rudder truly means, and that those pedals are not just foot rests. I would also say learn on what you plan to fly. If you want to fly an RV-8 ... learn to fly an RV-8, not a C150.

Quality of instruction is key. If you're going to learn to fly with a green 200hr wonder ... you're wasting your money. Semi-Blind leading the Blind.

So conclusion; not crazy by any means.

[gtmule]

I should have mentioned that I have 12 hours and 30 landings or so in a 172 (zzzz), and another 4 or 5 hours in various other things (RV7, RV9, Diamonda DA40 and Citabria). I had a pretty bad instructor, and life interference, and have been on hiatus for a year.

As an aside; how does insurance work if you're doing initial training in your own airplane? What about CFI's? Do I just need a tailwheel CFI who has had a few hours to get aquainted with the RV, or someone who has more RV time?

[frankh]

You really have to train yourself to a higher standard than a c172 can get away with..

Horror story...Last Summer met a gal who was interested in doing her instrument rating and asked me to go along with her on twice weekly flights so she could build her hours up and get some hood time before she started paying for a real instructor.

Ok that makes me safety pilot and flying is flying so why not?..She had around 85 hours and had gotten her private ticket bout 3 months before.
She actually did pretty well under the hood.

Then she announced she wanted to do some landings..Ok no problem and she elected to land on the Xwind landing with about 8 kts Xwind component..I cautioned her that was "Advanced" for level of experience and was she feeling confident?...I was assured and we came in on the approach.

I noticed her airspeed was fluctuating quite a bit and I asked her on downwind what her approach speed would be?..Hint hint..without looking at the ASI she announced 70kts with 10 degrees of flap..I was comfy with that answer..She then proceeded to fly the pattern without ever looking at the ASI..when she dipped to 50 kts at one point I sqwarked pointedly and she looked at the ASI, dipped the nose and carried on..Still not looking at the ASI.

I knew there would not be a next time as I was ready to pounce on the controls.

Well the xwind landing was a disaster and I said "go around!"..still fighting with the controls the ossilations (bounces) were getting worse and I slammed the throttle forward said "my airplane" and got it flying.....She calmed down a little and I was prepared to write this off as not her best performance..

Well the ASI thing happened twice more and I insisted we land this time (into wind).

Upon landing she didn't seem to grasp what the issue was..Further more she described a landing a while back where she bounced for the third time at full flaps with the stall horn going off and simply said "so I slammed the throttle forwards and got out of there!!!"

"erm...you do realise how close you were to a stall right?"..Of course she had no idea.

cutting a long story short I could not fly at our next appointment, and told her that I was concerned for her flying solo and suggested she get some time with the flight school CFI..She blew me off..

What to do..Well I went to her flight school and told them what happened and in my opinion she needed some help..Yurns out I was not her first experienced pilot passenger...he apparently had said the same thing.

They grounded her till she took a proficiancy check..she told them what to do with said check and promptly left the flying club...I felt awful but I honestly feel she was an accident looking for a place to happen.

OK this "Pilot" was well below par but was getting away with it albeit only just...In and RV9 she MIGHT also get away with it for a while..In my 7 she would have pankcaked the thing from a hundred feet!

But A good student pilot who flys by the numbers (just like the jet jocks do) should do fine..Just don't get into bad habits..

Frank

[Geico266]

Pick a CFI that will fly your plane, or the plane you are looking at.

[gtmule]

Originally Posted by Geico266

Pick a CFI that will fly your plane, or the plane you are looking at.

Yes, I'm thinking that this will be the hard part....I guess that's probably step one. Is there a database of CFI's that I can look in and call all the tailwheel guys reasonably close to me? (Other than the RV transition list).

[CNEJR]

How it all works out. I just finished my RV6 and plan on getting my PPL in it. Right now I have about 10 hours in a Champ. It is a very intimindating thought to do my training in my 6, but I have a really good instructor, who has built 3 RV6's & 1 RV10. I have never met anyone who is so by the book, I'm glad for that. He thinks I can do it, I plan on doing exactly what he says, when he says. Wish me luck.

[BikePilot]

This is great informaiton! Realistically, how easy or hard would it be to find a CFI who would be happy to instruct in an RV? I'm probably 1.5 years away from (hopefully) purchasing a flying or nearly-flying RV with the hope of getting instruction in it. I dearly want to build as well, but want to start flying right away so I plan to buy a flying plane, fly for a couple of years, and then start building. At that point I'll have a better idea of what I want in a plane and all that sort of thing

I am also hoping to do my primary training in an RV once I'm out of school and have a positive income. I flew gliders for a semester while studying abroad (first significant flight experience) and am reasonably sure that in many ways they require more precision and care than an RV (my glider instructor who was also an amature builder insisited this was tye case anyway). I have about 3 hours in an Aero Commander 100 (basically the same as a 172) and enjoyed that, but found it much less responsive. Compard to the gliders I found it extremely easy to fly and land (I never got particularly good at landing the gliders, but was able to put this plane on the ground in a reasonably smooth, if not partiuclarly percise manner on the first try).

I also had an hour and a half in a T-6 as a birthday present and loved the feel of that fine aircraft. It surprised me how light and responsive the stick was, it flew much more like the gliders in may respects than did the Aero Commander 100. I quite understandably did not have the oportunity to land the T-6, so the closest I've come to flying a tailwheel aircraft is the monowheel ASK-21 glider