2 newbee questions

RedLine19K · #1 04-05-2009, 08:38 AM

Hello all!

I've been reading for a week straight, but still haven't found the answer to 2 questions or even seen them asked:

1. How is it possible to buy a used experimental and still qualify the 51% needed? I guess anyone can fly the plane once it's approved

2., how is it possible to get the certificate to do maintenance if you arent the original builder?

If anyone could point me to the references I'd be thankful. I realsie it's possible of course, since so many do it. I'd just like to read the details and restrictions.

Thanks.

Vlad · #2 04-05-2009, 09:23 AM

Hi Albert,

A week is not enough to read VAF archives. Spend three more

. 99% of answers are right here on VAF.

Welcome!

lbgjb · #3 04-05-2009, 09:34 AM

1. Anyone can buy and then fly an experimental as their own.

2. ONLY the original builder who then gets the additional certificate for doing his own maintenance can do 'annuals' and major maintenance. You can do 'little' stuff on the plane just like you can on a certified plane. You can also help do the 'annuals' but they must be signed off by licensed mechanic.

Happy flying.

Geico266 · #4 04-05-2009, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbgjb

2. ONLY the original builder who then gets the additional certificate for doing his own maintenance can do 'annuals' and major maintenance. You can do 'little' stuff on the plane just like you can on a certified plane. You can also help do the 'annuals' but they must be signed off by licensed mechanic.

Happy flying.

That is not completely accurate. Anyone can work on any experimental and do any level of work. The EAA has specifically asked this question of the FAA and came to the following conclusion. This is the #1 asked question about experimentals. Any maintance or overhaul work, on an experimental can be done by anyone reguardless of credentials. I copied this from the EAA web site.

Non-builder Maintenance Frequently Asked Questions

#1. I am going to buy a used homebuilt, what work can I perform myself?

FAR Part 43 specifically states that the rules of that part do not apply to experimental, amateur-built aircraft. Therefore, any work (not just maintenance) on an experimental aircraft can be performed virtually by anyone regardless of credentials. (This does not apply to the condition inspection). Let common sense be your guide as to what maintenance you conduct yourself.

Obviously, the let the last sentence is your guild, and you can not sign off the required annual condition inspections. That can be done by any A&P or higher rating.

Geico266 · #5 04-05-2009, 10:08 AM

Redline19K! Dude! Throttle back!

Welcome To VAF

N941WR · #6 04-05-2009, 10:51 AM

The "Experimental" is just a category, same as Standard, Normal, Utility, Exhibition or whatever. Once an airplane is licensed in the "Experimental" category, it can be flown by anyone, same as a Cessna or Piper. However, there are some operating limitations, such as it can't be used for hire.

There is one glitch, they are not supposed to be flown over populated areas; however, the FAA has interpreted this to mean during the Phase I test period they are not to be flown over populated areas. After that, there has been no issues with flying Experimentals wherever you like.

Regarding working on an "Experimental" that someone else built; yes, you can do all the work you want. Up to and including overhauling the engine. However, and this is a big one, you must have a "Condition Inspection" performed every year. This is the "Experimental" equivalent to an Annual, the difference being that an A&P can sign it off. With a production aircraft, you must have an IA (or AI) sign it off.

(BTW, E-AB AKA Experimental Amateur Built aircraft are certified airplanes, they are certified in the "Experimental" category.)

PS. Welcome to the VAF forum. What kind of bike to you ride or are you into F1?

RedLine19K · #7 04-05-2009, 10:54 AM

LOL nah firewall to WEP is the way to go! Redline is just a nickname. the 19K is armor crewman.. I'm an army tanker. Kinda looking for something thats 68 tons lighter, not glued to the earth and doesnt burn a gallon of JP-8 a minute. Too old now for the US Gov't to pay me to fly, so I have to do it on my own. Honestly, I'm so psyched to find this plane is possible for less than 100k. The good news is if i'm "lucky" enough to get a 4th trip to the desert in 8 years I can probably buy the plane outright. I'm deployed for 6 more months.. plenty of time to read ALL the archives. GI Bill and a 4 yr aviation degree thru OSU will take care of the flight training. I looked at a gp-4 for years but.. decades old design and other concerns made me pass.

Thanks for the quick responses. I was wondering how buying a "project" might affect the 51% and so on. I'll keep reading, planning, dreaming. Btw, the build sites and stories are truly inspirational.

Mike S · #8 04-05-2009, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedLine19K

Hello all!

Hello back at ya---Welcome to the force.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedLine19K

I've been reading for a week straight, but still haven't found the answer to 2 questions or even seen them asked:

1. How is it possible to buy a used experimental and still qualify the 51% needed? I guess anyone can fly the plane once it's approved

If you buy a project that is not done, and then finish it yourself, you can apply for the repairman's cert-----you will have to prove you did 51% of the tasks, and if you can do so, you will qualify for the cert. If you cant prove that, you are SOL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedLine19K

2., how is it possible to get the certificate to do maintenance if you arent the original builder?

As has been stated above, you can work on a plane someone else built, just not sign off the "annual"---the condition inspection.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedLine19K

If anyone could point me to the references I'd be thankful. I realize it's possible of course, since so many do it. I'd just like to read the details and restrictions.

Thanks.

Your best bet here is Mel, Vic, or one of the other DAR's who frequent this forum.

You will probably get a response from one of them.

Good luck, and once again, welcome aboard.

Enjoy the ride.

N941WR · #9 04-05-2009, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike S

...If you buy a project that is not done, and then finish it yourself, you can apply for the repairman's cert-----you will have to prove you did 51% of the tasks, and if you can do so, you will qualify for the cert. If you cant prove that, you are SOL...

To clarify, you only need to do 51% of the tasks, not 51% of the work. Thus driving one rivet covers that task. You don't need to drive all 15,000+/- rivets. Run one wire, check that off. Fabricate one aluminum part, check that off. You get the idea.

You just need to document what you did to get the repairman's certificate. You hear us talk about log books, that includes a builder's log book.

I highly recommend you subscribe to KitPlanes and the EAA, if you haven't already done so. Both are great magazines and they cover these topics from time to time. More so now that Mel, Stein, and some other VAF contributors are writing regular articles for KitPlanes.

nucleus · #10 04-05-2009, 11:07 AM

Hey I was a nineteen kilo in another life! I have taken down many trees in West Germany with an Abrahms... They fly amazingly well too for such a heavy machine... I have the pictures to prove it! Loaded, gunned & drove from age 17-19. People can't believe that an M1 tank will stop shorter than a car, and has better floatation that a man. Found out the last one the hard way when I was a newbie by jumping off the tank to answer nature's call: Ended up hip deep in mud!

Thank you for your service to our country.

Hans