Modifying IO-360 C sump for forward facing servo

[mick]

I have a IO 360 B1B that has been converted to a forward facing servo. The servo on the B1B was originally rear facing.
A couple of things to watch out for are:
Make sure the new mounting plate for the servo at the front of the sump is positioned in the correct position. Mine was mounted high on the sump and it has caused issues with fitting of a induction air cleaner, also it positions the servo further forward than standard so the Vans FWF kit will not fit. In fact you will find you will have to manufacture new hoses also.
The other issue I have had was the exhaust, due to the shape and positioning of the induction tubes on my engine, no Vetterman exhaust would fit. I contacted Larry and he offered to manufacture a new system for me. Great guy, thanks Larry. Since I already had an exhaust I modified what I had, I will take Larry up on his offer in the future and replace it down the track.
Don't forget to have bosses welded to the underside of the sump for the control cables. I have had to make a strange looking setup because of no mounting points.
If I was to do it again i would replace the sump and induction tubes to save all the problems. I have watched two other RV7 builders fit off their aerosport engines in quarter of the time it has taken me.

Mick Haynes

[chaskuss]

Originally Posted by mick

I have a IO 360 B1B that has been converted to a forward facing servo. The servo on the B1B was originally rear facing.
A couple of things to watch out for are:
Make sure the new mounting plate for the servo at the front of the sump is positioned in the correct position. Mine was mounted high on the sump and it has caused issues with fitting of a induction air cleaner, also it positions the servo further forward than standard so the Vans FWF kit will not fit. In fact you will find you will have to manufacture new hoses also.
The other issue I have had was the exhaust, due to the shape and positioning of the induction tubes on my engine, no Vetterman exhaust would fit. I contacted Larry and he offered to manufacture a new system for me. Great guy, thanks Larry. Since I already had an exhaust I modified what I had, I will take Larry up on his offer in the future and replace it down the track.
Don't forget to have bosses welded to the underside of the sump for the control cables. I have had to make a strange looking setup because of no mounting points.
If I was to do it again i would replace the sump and induction tubes to save all the problems. I have watched two other RV7 builders fit off their aerosport engines in quarter of the time it has taken me.

Mick Haynes

Mick's suggestions for welding on mounting brackets is a good idea. Don't know if it's needed for a Cosy though? Mick's experiences with his IO-360-B1B don't apply to the -C1C. The sump on the -C1C is located further to the rear when compared to IO-360-A series and -B series sumps. The intake tubes are also shaped differently, as they are also located closer to the rear (towards the accessory case). RV-8A aircraft can not use the -C series sumps because of this. The C series sump hits the motor mount tubes.
Charlie Kuss

[chaskuss]

Above is a photo of Greg Young's RV6 with modified motor mount to allow use of the IO-360-C1C sump and intake tubes. You can clearly see that the lower section of the sump sits farther to the rear, compared to the -A & -B series sumps.
Charlie Kuss

[jbasol]

Yup, that's the same sump I have. Fortunately, the Cozy mount is built to allow for the sump, even the servo (just no room left after the servo for the intake tube). You can see photos of my engine and mount at www.basol.net/jcb/cozy Just click on the Chapter 23 link on the left. The engine pics are at the bottom of the resulting right hand frame. The first couple rows of pics show the mount and engine as well as them bolted to the airframe.

A fellow Cozy builder just sent me pics of an adapter he had made for that keeps the servo on the back of the sump, but angles it up and to the port side at about a 30deg angle. Very clever, though I'm curious how much it would cost me to have the adapter plate machined.

My automotive machinest is going to take a look at the sump on saturday, but is confident it will be no problem to make a flange on the forward side.

I'm sure it would be easier to pick up an A1A sump and patch the cowling to fit the pipes, but after all I've gone through to fit my cowlings, I kind of want to leave them be.

-John

[Craig Jones]

Does anyone know if this version of the IO 360 can be used for the RV-7a. I'm new to the forum and finally getting to the point where I'm looking at buying an enigne and prop. Would I be experiencing the same amount of added work as mentioned above with the c1c?

[Mike S]

Originally Posted by Craig Jones

I'm new to the forum ----

Welcome to the force, good to see ya.

[Bill Wightman]

We modified an IO360 sump from rear induction to frontal induction, and I designed/machined an adapter to do the job with minimal additional spacing in front of the sump.

I posted the whole project in another thread.
(scroll down the page a little to see the sump adapter)

Please note: we have not run this engine yet, so I can't give any operational feedback. We have had several A&P/IA's look at it and they liked what they saw.

We have everything in place to make these, since we saved all the jigs, mill programming, etc. I'd be happy to help if anyone needs another.

[Bill Wightman]

Originally Posted by chaskuss

... RV-8A aircraft can not use the -C series sumps because of this. The C series sump hits the motor mount tubes.
Charlie Kuss

Charlie refers to the RV8A, here but I wanted to show how the IO360C sump fits up on an RV8:



One thing to take note of: This IO sump is mated to an "O" top end. So, the intake pipes required special 1/4" adapters to fit up. They're visible right where each intake pipe bolts to the cylinder. We can make those too. The left front intake pipe is missing; I finally gave up on finding a good used one and ordered a new one for $330 bucks. Ouch.

But, its a neat installatioin. Really compact, smaller vertical profile, nice clean cowling, simple and direct control runs. We'll see how it runs shortly...

[chaskuss]

Originally Posted by Craig Jones

Does anyone know if this version of the IO 360 can be used for the RV-7a. I'm new to the forum and finally getting to the point where I'm looking at buying an engine and prop. Would I be experiencing the same amount of added work as mentioned above with the c1c?

Craig,
I can not give a definitive answer to your question, as I've never seen anyone try it. I doubt that it would work with any A model (nose gear) RV because of the additional tubing in the motor mount. Look at the 2 photos below, which show why you can not put an IO-360-C1C in an 8A. There are two additional tubes which start at the lower engine mount points and go down to support the nose gear leg socket. It is these two tubes (and probably the entire nose leg socket) that prevent the engine from going back far enough for the engine to be mounted. The C1C sump protrudes farther rearward than the A1A or M1B sumps do.





Charlie Kuss

[Bill Wightman]

Machining off the frontal sump casting boss: A standard knee mill does just fine for this job. CNC not required, although I prefer it. Here's how I jigged up my sump to do the work:



Facing off the casting boss:



After that, we just drilled and tapped for studs.

By the way, if anyone needs a forward facing sump, I have one on the shelf here. Its off an O360 A1A; was updraft now its set up for forward facing injection. All work done by a certified shop, really nice work.