Can I afford one of these things?

aarvig · #1 03-10-2009, 10:36 PM

I am 34 years old, have 3 kids, six figure student loans, a mortgage and a 5 year old business. I recently started working on my private pilot license and am about to solo. Well, much to the chagrin of my wife the flying bug bit me again, harder than ever before. (I think I have a disease

) Because of this, the desire to build a plane has had me researching everything from a Sonex to the RV. Of course, my dream plane is an RV-7A. My plan would be to build the RV as "affordably" as possible. Basic day/night VFR panel, fixed pitch prop, no paint for now, and an overhauled O/IO-360. Hoping to come in around $55k. Financially, I can do this over about 7-10 years with my current income which I hope will go up but I am considering it to remain the same for the purposes of this financial exercise. If my income goes up, the time to build comes down. So after the excitement of considering the build wore off I realized I have to afford to operate this thing. YIKES. So I was hoping I could get some information on how much annual operating costs for an RV were as well as some of your stories as to how you managed to pay for the build and pay to fly the finished product so I can determine if the RV is the right plane for my situation.
The other option I considered was to build a Sonex with a 3300 Jabiru engine and fly it till I could afford to build and fly the RV. But, the Sonex just isn't even close to an RV. Its not really what I want but I know that right now I can afford to build and fly one. All these difficult decisions!

Bottom line, I need to know if I can afford it and keep my family together and happy at the same time. Thanks ahead for all your advice.

frankh · #2 03-10-2009, 10:52 PM

for financial risk?

Purely my personal position but...Airplanes are toys and should be funded like any other toy..I.e paid for with cash that you have..and if you have any loans or a mortgage these should be paid off first before buying airplanes.

Then again my tolerance for risk is very low..Looking as how I fully expect to lose my job this year but can keep the roof over my head because I own said roof well then I'm not feeling too stressed.

But even then I expect to sell my IFR 7a or pull the wings off and bring it home to wait out the depression.

If I were in your position there is no way I'd be thinking of building an airplane..Whats more if you wait I bet you'll be able to buy one complete for less than what it would cost you to build it.

Now I will never be a rich man..Entrepraneurs but their very attitude have a greater tolerance for risk..Now and again these people become very wealthy.

You have to speculate to accumulate...Even as a professional Engineer I expect to die poor..

Frank

ericwolf · #3 03-10-2009, 11:08 PM

I don't totally agree with Frank. I have a home equity loan that pays for about 50% (the other 50% was cash). I'm currently an unemployed engineer and I still am happy with my decision. To me, the airplane is more than just a toy, it is a dream. I can just imagine a conversation with me and a friend that goes something like this:

Friend: "So did you start building your airplane yet?"
Me: "Nope, I don't have enough cash to pay for all of it and I don't want to borrow any money, so I'm going to give up on my dreams and watch TV every night instead."

That was a scenario that I wanted to avoid. Now that I'm almost done with my plane, I don't regret it at all, even though I'm out of work.

It sounds like you have a good handle on the costs, it is up to you weather it is worth the risk, time, money, commitment, frustration, joy, and fun to build your own aircraft.

Norman CYYJ · #4 03-10-2009, 11:24 PM

I am with Frankh. Think of your family first, support your growing family. Get out of debt. Then buy your toys. IMHO

sglynn · #5 03-11-2009, 12:06 AM

Sorry nope, you can't afford it now for two reasons: 1) money and 2) family time. Every week you'll be off at the hardware store, or on-line buying something and you can't worry about the money. It will cost $60k or more before its done. And also because you need to spend time with the kids doing stuff, not in the garage messing with pro-seal. You'll lose your head in this RV project instead of thinking and playing with your family. At best you'll get started, then distracted, and 20 years later you'll still be working on it or worse, you might be wishing you spent more time going to kids sports games, camping, and playing with them.

Go buy a Piper Cherokee for $25,000 now and fly the heck out of it. Teach your kids to fly it. Take them on vactions in it. Get your wife excited about airplanes by taking her shopping in far off towns with airports. You'll learn tons of stuff. After your college is paid off and the kids' college is funded then build an RV. You'll have more money, more time, and more supportive family. And there is no rush. Vans will be here and the avionics will be even better in 15 years.

Good luck

nucleus · #6 03-11-2009, 12:49 AM

Go for it! When my health nut mom died suddenly of cancer I suddenly realized that I needed an RV sooner rather than later. I took my house money and got a plane. Considering what real estate has done since 2006, I think I did ok!

Consider buying one that is already flying. No it isn't quite the same, but you are flying from day one, and it will likely actually cost less, and definitely take up a lot less family time. You can build your dream machine slowly while you fly what you have. An RV-4 or RV-6 are both great planes and undervalued in the market, the market skews towards the new... I mean people spend 40K on a truck, for the same or a little more you can have an airplane...

Hans
(My truck was built in 1973)

Will_S · #7 03-11-2009, 01:15 AM

Its alot of money and commitment of time on a toy/hobby.

Personally I wish I had build the LongEZ 30 odd years ago when I bought the plans. But in some way because I didn't my house is now paid off, and the kids are financially through school, and I am now comfortable to get started on an RV.

In your position, I would accept the situation of limited resources for the time being and find a cheaper way to fulfill my desire to fly......

.... but if someone had even given me a sniff of possiblity that LongEZ would be nearing its 20th birthday now......sigh!!!!!

w1curtis · #8 03-11-2009, 01:32 AM

Go for it! As is said, life is short, live it before you die. If you wait 30 years to pay off your mortgage before you can pursue a dream, you will be frustrated internally which can be worse for you and your family in the long term. Not saying that everyone should pursue a dream without regard to their families, however this is a reasonable pursuit that should not affect too much your family life.

$60K over 10 years is $6K per year. I know many people who spend more than this in not as productive pastimes that have nothing to show for it after 10 years. An airplane project is an outlet at home. Airplane construction will keep you home with the family and as the kids get older, it can become a family affair.

Everyone should have an outlet. If your outlet is at home as opposed to say the golf course, or the bowling alley, it is much better for the family. The Vans kits have a good formula because they allow you to "pay as you go" for a large portion of the project. Only as you get toward the end do you have to make the big investments.

Calvin25 · #9 03-11-2009, 02:54 AM

You only live once, just get it done.

asav8tor · #10 03-11-2009, 03:24 AM

Wife + kids + job + RV = time problems for most. Some people are excellent time managers. For those that might not apply.

Mortgage + other loans + Wife + kids + RV = money problems for most. Some people are excellent money managers. For those that might not apply.

If you score high on both = build.

Low on time/high on money = buy already built, finance it!

Low on both = bag it.

High on time/low on money = flip a coin. Heads, build pay as you go. Tails, bag it.