How much do you operate your RV in IMC?

[N316RV]

Of you guys with Instrument tickets that have flying RVs equipped for instrument flying, how often do you actually fly IMC?

I have my Instrument ticket and am in the final stages of my panel design. The $$$ difference between a nice VFR panel and an IFR panel with appropriate fail safes are significant (no surprise right?). I am trying to take a realistic view on how often I would actually fly IFR after spending the dollars.

Thanks
Alan Jackson
N316RV
RV-9A
Hartselle, AL

[Bob Axsom]

If you are going to travel in your RV and you have an instrument rating I think it would be a good idea to include a basic IFR capability for IMC survival - whatever that means to you. If you are going to fly IFR in an RV I strongly recommend an autopilot system with an altitude hold capability. I flew to work every day for 15 years often in IMC with a Piper Archer and I never used my autopilot so I did not install one in my RV-6A. After a year or so of minor to extreme tension because of the attention required to fly the RV on instruments with all of the other ATC and navigation requirements I installed a Tru Trak Pictorial Pilot for directional control and an Altrak for altitude hold and IMC life became much more manageable. I would at least install a VOR/LOC/GS receiver and display and an FAA approved GPS that can be substituted for DME (like the SL-60 which also serves as a communication transceiver) just to give you a way out if things go bad.

We are flying to Key West tomorrow and the trip should go fine except for the planned refueling stop in Alabama. I can't wait for ideal conditions all the way to Key West from northwest Arkansas if I want to make the trip with reasonable scheduling. I don't particularly enjoy it but almost every significant trip we make requires some cloud flying. If I had built our RV to be strictly VFR it would be very limited for travel purposes.

Bob Axsom

[AX-O]

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[alcladrv]

Originally Posted by N316RV

Of you guys with Instrument tickets that have flying RVs equipped for instrument flying, how often do you actually fly IMC?

To answer your directly: I fly IMC whenever it presents itself along any route where I'm operating on an IFR flight plan. (Please note the distinction between IMC and IFR.) The controllers don't know or care where the clouds are. There are still vast areas, even in the east, where the weather conditions in your precise location are known only to you, even with closely spaced (a very subjective term) weather reporting stations. That's why PIREPS are still solicited.

For example: You've been assigned 6000' and you can see the ground occasionally through breaks in the overcast, ATC won't change your altitude because of conflicting traffic for the next 50 miles. You're both IFR and IMC and you have no choice but fly on, if you want to go your intended destination. To ATC, all instrument-rated pilots are expected to fly to the same standards.

To my mind, a better question to ask is: How often do you want to be able to complete a given flight in the planned timeframe, like over a 3 day weekend? and a followup question: What is it worth to you?

We all know you can delay or extend trips when you're VFR, the weather's not cooperating and there's no time critical event, like a wedding or graduation, in the mix.

My flights have run the gamut. I've flown 500 nm cross-countries, all VMC, except for a descent through 3000' of clouds to an approach down to minimums. Others have been the opposite, 2 hrs. of IMC until the weather opened up to clear and 50 miles just 30 miles from my destination.

My .02: Equip the plane to match your comfort level to fly in the conditions you're comfortable with and perhaps a little worse. For example: If your personal minimums limit you to conditions where you won't fly in less than a 500 ft. ceiling and 2 miles visibility, then equip your plane with an ILS receiver to get you down to see the runway well before the typical 200 ft. ceiling and 1/2 mile visibility minimums of many ILS approaches.

In my -7A, I used the spam cans as a baseline for redundancy in IMC conditions. With an operable pitot-static system, I figured that if I could stay upright with a turn coordinator or 2nd ADI; if I could talk to someone, a 2nd radio maybe a handheld; and if I could follow directions with a compass or handheld gps then I'd be allright.

Of course, if you can't talk to someone, you need to be able to follow the NORDO (no radio) procedures detailed in the regs.

That's my comfort level. You'll have to decide what yours is.

Mike

[tommylewis]

we do make frequent cross country trips and find it necessary to file. For instance, last Oct we flew from Texas to New Hampshire to visit kids. It is a 4 legged trip for us. We filed IFR one leg of the trip up because the ceilings over the App Mountains was 1-2k and tops were 9-10k, so IFR made it alot easier. On the way home, we filed IFR out of Frankfort, Ky because of low scud and rain, but 200 miles west was clear.

So if you are making cross country trips, suggest you have some capability to file IFR. Bob made some good recommendations. An auto pilot is essential.

[frankh]

I had a VFR x country plane before this one (no IFR ticket) and to be honest we never dared actually go anywhere for the weekend because we could never trust what the weather would be on the way back.

Now I live in the Willamette valley in W oregon where clouds and rain can happen any day of the year almost.

So yes, while actual IMC time is maybe 10 to 15%..It will always happen when I'm coming back from 1000 miles away.

Frank

[AndyRV7]

Originally Posted by frankh

I had a VFR x country plane before this one (no IFR ticket) and to be honest we never dared actually go anywhere for the weekend because we could never trust what the weather would be on the way back.


Frank

As a renter, I feel exactly this way. So I am preparing for my instrument training now, even though I don't want to be a student again yet. And I hope to have IFR capabilities in my RV (if I ever start it!!). I want mine for X-C travel. So I don't see having a choice.

[Ironflight]

I'll reinforce the great posts above...it's not about how often you have to use it, it is the fact that it gives you the confidence to use the airplane for cross-country trips that makes it worthwhile having the capability. But that capability will come at a price. I don't like flying IFR with really minimal equipment - I did that for years in ill-equipped and under-redundant Spam cans. I built my RV with more capability than I would need so that I have a level of protection to make it safe.

To answer the question directly - I can count the times I use an Instrument Clearance in a year on my fingers (heck I could count them Stein's remaining fingers!). That's with about 300 hours a year of flying, and lots of cross-county time.

I'd build with the same capability again (well, maybe not the -3).

Paul

[John Clark]

I agree with Paul, it is about the confidence that comes with added capability. It also depends on where you live and the mission you have in mind. In my case, on the coast of California, most of my time in actual IFR is in 30 second chunks on a simple IFR to VFR on top clearance. Without the capability, you may wait until noon for a 500 foot thick stratus layer to clear. But, as Paul said, it comes at a price. Not just equipment, remember to factor in keeping current, software updates, and chart subscriptions.

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA

[sglynn]

I currently fly my Cherokee IFR monthly. Course here in northwest we often have a stratos layer that you merely have to descend down through. But we travel to friends east of the mountains, and south to Portland so I consider IFR rating and capability a requirement. I'm just finishing wings and already looking at EFIS/avionics. I would recommend you think about three things:

1) Garmin 430 period. Gives you Comm, Nav, Loc, Glide Slope, DME, GPS
2) Autopilot with at least wing leveler and vector following
3) Backup AI, consider the various fail modes and have at least one way to have an attitdue indicator if all else fails. This might be gyro, or EFIS or GPS but if primary EFIS goes blank, or you lose alternator and main battery how will you control attitude?

good luck