O320 E3D Advice

snoop9erdog · #1 12-02-2008, 01:11 PM

Folks,

I have encountered an O320 E3D widedeck that has approx 2000 TTSN that had a top overhaul 1000 hrs ago to increase the HP to 160. The package is essentialy a firewall forward with all accessories (carb, flywheel, old starter, oil cooler, alternator still attached, fuel pump, attached vaccuum pump, and attached baffling). I can pick it up for 5K. Does that sound like a fair price?

The intention would be to tear it down and overhaul as necessary. The engine would be installed on a 9A.

Thanks in advance for the advice.

Ed

Don Jones · #2 12-02-2008, 01:20 PM

It sounds like a fair price provided all the parts are good. Why was it removed? Has it had a prop strike? Need a real detailed history to know for sure as well as doing a little inspection. You should pull at least 1 cylinder (2 is better) to inspect the cam, check the run-out on the crank flange if there was a strike, and inspect the front inner diameter on the crank for corrosion. The rest is a **** shoot without a complete teardown and inspection. It sounds like it might be a good canidate, but there is always the possibility of un-forseen problems.

Low Pass · #3 12-02-2008, 04:26 PM

Need more details, but teardown is definitely not a foregone conclusion with it at 2000 TTSN and 1000 STOH. You may well get quite a bit of good use out of it as it sits.

When did it fly last? You know/trust the previous owner? Still have a data plate on it? Is the baffling set up for a -9? Details on the accessories? $5k sounds slightly high, but then again I haven't priced engines in quite a while.

If you're buying for a new plane, I would look for something you DON'T have to tear down! If you get this one and are convinced you need to tear it down, at least get the plane through the test period first.

Mel · #4 12-02-2008, 04:39 PM

If you know somewhat of the history and know it hasn't had a prop strike, I wouldn't be afraid of this engine at all. My -6 first flew with an O-320-E3D with 2515 TT (first run). I flew it for 3 years before overhauling it, and even at that point, it really didn't need it. I just did it to increase HP.

Ken · #5 12-02-2008, 05:18 PM

Ed, six years ago I bought a E2D with about 2100 hours so I have some experience. Price was $5,000 then but this was before all the EXP 360,s were on the market. I think you should pay less. Here's why.

With those hours there is a good probability that the crank and case are fine but you have to disassemble, replace main bearings and grind cam. Rocker arms, lifters, con rods etc. have to be re-worked. The accessory case has to be machined for a fuel pump ($225).

I would be surprised that the cylinders don't need work after 1000 hours. Probably need cylinders.

Here is about what I spent. $ 6372 with ECI for cylinders and various parts and machine work. Another $700 - $1000 for stuff and services and a carb kit if needed,not including the accessory case work above.

Now if you do the work yourself, not too bad. If you pay a mechanic look at $2500 to 3000.

Then you're at the price of a new experimental engine with carb. That is why I think $ 5,000 is too much for that engine.

Ken

Ken · #6 12-02-2008, 05:21 PM

As Mel says there is a possibility of getting some good life out of the engine. As I say, there is also a possibility of having to do what I described.

Ken

az_gila · #7 12-02-2008, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken

......
I would be surprised that the cylinders don't need work after 1000 hours. Probably need cylinders.
......Ken

...the original, brand new cylinders only lasted 1000 hrs before they needed that top overhaul....

Just cost in brand new cylinders into your budget.

Mel · #8 12-02-2008, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by az_gila

...the original, brand new cylinders only lasted 1000 hrs before they needed that top overhaul....

A top overhaul to increase HP doesn't mean the cylinders were bad.

az_gila · #9 12-03-2008, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mel

A top overhaul to increase HP doesn't mean the cylinders were bad.

...I missed the bit about the HP increase to 160...

However, since the only physical items changed for that increase is the piston (higher compression ratio) and the rings, there would be no need to change (or work on) the valves ($200 if replaced per cylinder) or seats or guides or springs or rockers.

But, if you did need a top overhaul, then extra for the HP increase would only be the price of the pistons (about $40 each) and the STC cost - if it was a certified application.

I don't believe any of the HC STCs would require an actual top overhaul - a term that does not even have a Lycoming description, IIRC.

snoop9erdog · #10 12-03-2008, 07:54 AM

Thanks for the response.

A little more history:

The current owner bought the engine from a guy in ID who was upgrading to a O360. He bought it for his 6A project about two years ago, but then recently decided to shelve the project and sell the 6A and then finish a Zenith 701. So, the engine has sat for about two years in a western dry climate. No prop strike history, the engine comes with all logs. The only thing that is a little strange is that the 10 HP upgrade wasn't documented in the logs. Maybe this is so because it was used on an experimental?

I don't have any reason to believe that the engine has any issues, but I haven't verified either (boroscope, etc). I tried to contact by e-mail the previous owner, but had no luck. The current owner said the engine came of of the previous owners RV6 operating fine. But.....it is technically at overhaul time and I'd want to take a look inside.

Ed