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  #31  
Old 01-04-2018, 08:13 PM
Bevan Bevan is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: BC
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Default Anyone using XD3 15w40?

Reviving this thread.

Have any others adopted this oil for use in their Lycoming?

If yes,
please state the Lycoming model number.
please state which fuels you use, auto, 100LL other.
please state time between oil changes.
please state oil consumption between changes.
please state approx. number of hours running this oil.
please state any known/perceived changes running this oil such as cleaner/dirtier cylinders, aircraft under belly, any failures caused by the oil etc.

Bevan
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  #32  
Old 01-05-2018, 12:31 PM
dtw_rv6 dtw_rv6 is offline
 
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Location: Martinsville, IN
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Thanks for your comments Doug. It sounds like you have an inside perspective. I realize you may not be able to share, but what data is available that we can sink our teeth into? Can you point us to anything objective? Not at all am I trying disparage. I just like to always understand ?why?.

Thanks!
Don

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Eves View Post
The best use for aviation oil is for lubricating door hinges that squeak. I have worked for Imperial Oil (EXXON)for over 30 years. 10 in R&D and 20 in quality assurance. Use XD3 15w40 and never look back. Keeps the interals spotless without making combustion chamber deposits. It could make deposits if your burning copious amounts of oil but under normal oil consumpsion rates the deposit theory is a myth. I have seen lycomings apart (not from using the wrong oil , just some inferior/poorly desighned wrist pin buttons) at 1000 hrs. that had 0 deposits or wear anywhere and looked as clean as the day it was assembled. One engine was using Mobil 1 5w30 and the other was using XD3 15w40. Other engines I have seen apart that were using AV oil were full of coke deposits and were filthy inside. All the voodoo aside, I use XD3 15w40 in all my tractors,my truck, my car,offshore,combine,my lawnmower, and my RV-6 (IO-360) without any problems or worries. Oil companies love to make you feel special with all those special products. I don't use it because it's cheaper, I use it because it gives better protection to my motor and that is a fact. P.S. I won't write back to argue because I don't have to.
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  #33  
Old 01-05-2018, 06:21 PM
BillL BillL is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,516
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevan View Post
Reviving this thread.

Have any others adopted this oil for use in their Lycoming?

If yes,
please state the Lycoming model number.
please state which fuels you use, auto, 100LL other.
please state time between oil changes.
please state oil consumption between changes.
please state approx. number of hours running this oil.
please state any known/perceived changes running this oil such as cleaner/dirtier cylinders, aircraft under belly, any failures caused by the oil etc.

Bevan
Here is a reference on the oil viscosity availability, and some additives.

You might add cam wear experience to your list if the user has slipper followers.
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Lord Kelvin:
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and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.”
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  #34  
Old 01-05-2018, 08:31 PM
ralph skorupa ralph skorupa is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: WI
Posts: 22
Default Aircraft oil

Aero oils are ,as others pointrd out, ashless dispersent oils designed for high stress aircooled engines with high CHT's and larger clearances.
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  #35  
Old 01-06-2018, 06:01 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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Old thread. Apparently the referenced XD3 15W-40 is no longer available, at least by that brand name.
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  #36  
Old 01-06-2018, 06:31 AM
BillL BillL is offline
 
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Location: Central IL
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Old thread. Apparently the referenced XD3 15W-40 is no longer available, at least by that brand name.
XD3 is apparently the Mobil 1 series of oils. I attached a table of the viscosities and some additive concentrations of Mobil1 above. It does have ZDP but still may or may not be satisfactory for the slipper cam materials in the Lyc. It actually looks like the racing oil might compare best. A discussion with Mobil might help narrow the choices.

Each engine may be specific as to the additives needed, and engine developers can not test with every oil. If they only recommend one to keep warranty, then they legally have to supply that oil free. This is why (I believe) that new cars have free oil changes for a certain period. Not a bad marketing ploy either.

BTW - anyone heard of the chicken tax? It's why all pickup trucks are made in USA.
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Bill

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Lord Kelvin:
“I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about,
and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.”
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  #37  
Old 01-06-2018, 08:57 AM
maniago's Avatar
maniago maniago is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Bowie MD
Posts: 886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillL View Post
It does have ZDP but still may or may not be satisfactory for the slipper cam materials in the Lyc.
This is the kicker. Slider cam motors need Zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP) in far greater amounts than roller cam motors (which need none). It helps keep the rubbing metals apart best.

The only oil you can still get on the auto market these days with the amount of Zinc a slider needs is diesel truck oil. Its what I run in all my older cars. And its what we'll need for our Lycos when we finally go no-lead.

Google and read. Lots and lots to read on this.
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  #38  
Old 01-06-2018, 06:30 PM
Harvey's Avatar
Harvey Harvey is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: I live on an airpark in South East Queensland, Australia
Posts: 114
Default Chicken Tax ?

OK, I give up....what is the Chicken Tax ans what makes you think all pick up trucks are made in USA ?

;-)


Quote:
Originally Posted by BillL View Post
XD3 is apparently the Mobil 1 series of oils. I attached a table of the viscosities and some additive concentrations of Mobil1 above. It does have ZDP but still may or may not be satisfactory for the slipper cam materials in the Lyc. It actually looks like the racing oil might compare best. A discussion with Mobil might help narrow the choices.

Each engine may be specific as to the additives needed, and engine developers can not test with every oil. If they only recommend one to keep warranty, then they legally have to supply that oil free. This is why (I believe) that new cars have free oil changes for a certain period. Not a bad marketing ploy either.

BTW - anyone heard of the chicken tax? It's why all pickup trucks are made in USA.
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  #39  
Old 01-06-2018, 06:44 PM
Harvey's Avatar
Harvey Harvey is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: I live on an airpark in South East Queensland, Australia
Posts: 114
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It seems to me that Doug Eves is the only one that is in a position to provide any real evidence in support of using auto oils. My personal opinion is that Ashless Dispersant aviation oils are designed to cope with the TEL ( lead ) in Avgas, first and foremost. When Mobil introduced its Mobil One full synthetic aviation oils some years ago, the problem was it was incompatible with the high lead in the fuel and formed a grey sludge in the sump.
So it seems that by changing to unleaded fuel, then it opens the way to use auto oil, but rather than the thin 0-30 used in modern high-revving watercooled engines for fuel economy with its additives that make wet clutches in motorcycles slip, an oil suited to high-performance aircooled engines ( Harleys spring to mind) which often have extra ZDPP ( zinc) necessary for things like flat tappet cams. I love avgas but it does leave deposits in the combustion chamber and contaminate the oil. A cleaner burning mogas should allow greater options on what oil to use, but we need testing. If it has been done, then there are a lot of interested people waiting to learn more.
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  #40  
Old 01-06-2018, 06:52 PM
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Toobuilder Toobuilder is offline
 
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Location: Mojave
Posts: 4,652
Default

When the Rocket flies again I will be running a test series with the intent of determining if EFI and careful ignition timing will allow unrestricted use of automotive pump gas. If this works and I am truely free from 100LL, then alternative oil will be the next subject of study. Interested in learning more about this.
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WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.

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