Getting Aircraft IFR Certification with EFIS

[USCANAM]

Did a search on this forum on getting our 9A IFR certified, and saw a lot of information and lawyerese of regulations which can be confusing.

I talked on Thursday to the technician would always did my Mooney, but he is uncertain about how, or what is required for the 9.
Happens that the Feds were going to be at his shop on Friday, and he was going to try and find out as much as he can as related to the 9.

What I'd like to do is list the equipment that I have, and see if anyone has been successful getting certified with a similar setup. I'm not that optimistic that the Feds in my area will be of much help.

We have the Blue Mountain Sport which receives nav and ILS info from the Garmin 530. We have a ILS at our field, and it works great. This we confirmed in VFR conditions.
The GTS 327 also receives encoder info from the Blue Mountain.
We have a heated pitot, and a outside source static system.
Back up altimeter and airspeed purchased new from Vans.
Checks with ground radar indicate that Mode C is working and accurate.

In the past when the Mooney was done, he would remove the altimeter from the A/C, put it on his bench and compare it with his test unit, and either pass it or fail it.
To check transmitted altitude, he would put his equipment beside the plane and adjust the static source to testing altitudes.

Now, I do have an idea how to calibrate the altitude readout signal in the Blue Mountain (using the keyboard if necessary) which is also the encoder for the transponder.
I guess the question arises at to what is the altimeter for the certification, the non-TSO's mechanical one from Van's, or the altitude readout on the Blue Mountain.
Will appreciate any experienced help in this matter. I'm sure it will also be of interest to many more with a EFIS system.
Please enlighten me if I've missed anything.
Thanks
Jack
RV9A
70.1 hours

[Auburntsts]

There is no IFR certiifcation per se. You the pilot, by filing IFR are saying the aircraft meets the requirements. My understanding in a nutshell, is your op lims has to say that IFR flight is authorized if properly equipped, you have to be equipped IAW 91.205, you have to have the required transponder and pitot/Static checks, and the transponder has to meet the TSO.

[USCANAM]

Originally Posted by Auburntsts

There is no IFR certiifcation per se. You the pilot, by filing IFR are saying the aircraft meets the requirements. My understanding in a nutshell, is your op lims has to say that IFR flight is authorized if properly equipped, you have to be equipped IAW 91.205, you have to have the required transponder and pitot/Static checks, and the transponder has to meet the TSO.

Thanks for the reply Todd
The issue here is my avionics guy is not familiar with experimental aircraft. He's installed avionics in them, but has never done the required xponder, static, and altimeter checks on an experimental plane.
If the FAA cannot give him proper information as to what he can and cannot work on, hopefully I can learn enough on this forum to help him.
Unless someone else knows of another source in the Massachusetts area that can do the required checks on an experimental, I'll have to hope for success with my guy.
Hopefully, we will be successful, and he will be comfortable doing other experimentals in the area.
Jack

[az_gila]

Originally Posted by Auburntsts

There is no IFR certiifcation per se. You the pilot, by filing IFR are saying the aircraft meets the requirements. My understanding in a nutshell, is your op lims has to say that IFR flight is authorized if properly equipped, you have to be equipped IAW 91.205, you have to have the required transponder and pitot/Static checks, and the transponder has to meet the TSO.

...test requirements and tolerances are given in Part 43 Appendix E.

http://www.flightsimaviation.com/dat...t_43-appE.html

...and are required by that pesky FAR 91.205 bit....

Have the shop check the mechanical altimeter, the EFIS alt. reading and the encoder - should be easy enough to do all three at once....

[SteinAir]

Originally Posted by USCANAM

Thanks for the reply Todd
The issue here is my avionics guy is not familiar with experimental aircraft. He's installed avionics in them, but has never done the required xponder, static, and altimeter checks on an experimental plane.
If the FAA cannot give him proper information as to what he can and cannot work on, hopefully I can learn enough on this forum to help him.
Unless someone else knows of another source in the Massachusetts area that can do the required checks on an experimental, I'll have to hope for success with my guy.
Hopefully, we will be successful, and he will be comfortable doing other experimentals in the area.
Jack

Hi Jack,

This is common with both the FAA and normal shops that only work on certified aircraft. Our local FSDO sometimes can't answer our questions about such things, even though we are a 145 certified shop. As others have told you there is no "IFR certification" for EAB's. So, here's what you need to be legal:

1) The equipment appropriate to the type of navigating you'll be doing in the IFR system (be it GPS, VOR, DME or whatever).

2) A full IFR Transponder & Pitot/Static cert. This check should take anywhere from 2-4 hours depending on how good your pitot/static system is and how easy it is to calibrate your EFIS and it's altimeter.

It sort of can depend on how the shop was certified. If he has a full class rating or a capabilities list. Either way he needs to be able to knowledgeably work on what he's testing, which usually means having current manuals for both the encoder(in this case the EFIS) and the transponder. Other than that it should be pretty simple. We do a lot of these and just had our yearly FAA audit/inspection last week. The FAA said we're doing fine, so just tell your guy to give you a standard/full IFR check and you should be golden. You don't need any sort of logbook entry that says anything about aircraft IFR certification - that's your responsibility. His is the Transponder and Pitot/Static system.

Cheers,
Stein

[Redwagon]

at the AOPA show I was talking with the Aspen and King folks on installs and was told that you are required to have an attitude Gyro and mechanical altimeter installed as backup. Didnt ask about mechanical Airpseed. Does that only apply to certified aircraft or does it apply here as well??

Tim

[az_gila]

Originally Posted by SteinAir

....... The FAA said we're doing fine, so just tell your guy to give you a standard/full IFR check and you should be golden. You don't need any sort of logbook entry that says anything about aircraft IFR certification - that's your responsibility. His is the Transponder and Pitot/Static system.

Cheers,
Stein

...is that the transponder system is not TSO'd with an experimental EFIS acting as an altitude encoder....

However, I guess most shops (and owners) overlook this detail...

Check 2.6.2.4 in your GTX-327 Installation Manual.... and FAR 91.217 for the other TSO C88

[PCHunt]

Is this one of those "Don't ask, don't tell" thingy's?

[Garage Guy]

Originally Posted by Auburntsts

My understanding in a nutshell, is your op lims has to say that IFR flight is authorized if properly equipped, you have to be equipped IAW 91.205, you have to have the required transponder and pitot/Static checks, and the transponder has to meet the TSO.

There's more if there's an IFR GPS in the mix. If you are conducting "any GPS operation under IFR", the AIM 1-1-19-d says the GPS has to meet TSO-C129. OK, so you can meet that: just buy a TSO'd GPS.

But it also says the installation has to be done in accordance with AC 20-138, and that there needs to be a FAA-approved aircraft flight manual supplement for the installation. Again, these will be taken care of if you're buying a factory new certified airplane. But neither of these is automatic with an installation in an experimental aircraft.

In an experimental, is a log entry by the owner certifying compliance with AC 20-138 sufficient for that part? And how do you go about getting the FAA to approve your flight manual supplement?

--Paul

[USCANAM]

Originally Posted by SteinAir

We do a lot of these and just had our yearly FAA audit/inspection last week. The FAA said we're doing fine, so just tell your guy to give you a standard/full IFR check and you should be golden. You don't need any sort of logbook entry that says anything about aircraft IFR certification - that's your responsibility. His is the Transponder and Pitot/Static system.

Cheers,
Stein

Thanks Stein
I'll pass this on to my shop.
If no success, there might be a flight from MA to MN in my near future!!!

Thanks again
Jack