Can Civilian GA aircraft do the overhead approach / break ?

[jferraro17]

Originally Posted by captainron

Or, "Controller's operating initials, and time check, please".

Sounded like a runway incursion by the other pilot...or a conflicting clearance for you. I wouldn't let them bully you if you had the clearance.

Joe

[jferraro17]

Back in my T-37 IP days, I had a 3-d model of the overhead on my desk to try to get the students to learn it from a situational awareness/spacially aware point of view. Looked like one of the kids toys with the wire bending all different ways, with wooden beads sliding on them. That pasted drawing is a great facsimile.

I believe the overhead to be safer from the energy/emergency standpoint. The AF version of the training pattern had an "outside downwind" square pattern and an overhead pattern within the box. The square patter served as overflow to get guys around and lined back up for initial. Also, I recall times with 6, 7, 8 jets in the pattern simultaneously. It can definitely get more into the pattern than a single box pattern.

Speeds vary by aircraft, but we would do 200KIAS up initial, pull to idle at the break, level 2-3 g turn would bleed the speed to gear extension speed--more g's to adjust for high speed or tighten the downwind leg, less to widen (for winds, you always wanted the second 180 turn to be the same, so you adjusted the width of you downwind for an overshooting/undershooting wind in the final turn). Arrive abeam the numbers on downwind with gear down, flaps working down, and pitch over, reduce power and roll.

Shoot to lose 1/3 of altitude in 1st half of turn, 1/3 in second half, which leaves 1/3 for the short final segment. (300', 300', 300' for a 1000' pattern; etc.)

My RV is still a pile of parts in my garage, so I can't give you speeds/flap techniques, but I hope this makes sense.


Joe

[wickedsprint]

I have some T-34C time from NAS Pensacola and we'd come into the break basically as fast as a T34C could go...around 200 indicated..and the good instructors would wrap it up to 4.5gs and roll out perfectly on heading for downwind. That got me hooked on Gs. Too bad being only in backseater training gave me a sour taste for letting other pilots yank and bank me around...didn't have the stomach for it. But an RV-8 according to Vans numbers is pretty close to a T-34C turboprop but is rated for more Gs..yeehaw.

[RV6_flyer]

Originally Posted by jferraro16

My RV is still a pile of parts in my garage, so I can't give you speeds/flap techniques, but I hope this makes sense.


Joe

The RVs start at 120-130 KIAS on a 3 mile initial in echelon at TPA or as directed. (older AIM said TPA + 500') At the break point, roll briskly to 60 degrees and 2 Gs starting a 180 degree turn with power reduction as needed so as to arrive parallel to the runway inside the normal downwind and at 100 mph IAS. (yes I went from KIAS to MPH IAS and top of the white arc) Drop flaps to 1/2 (or more) to help stabilize speed and altitude on the tight downwind leg. MAINTAIN Traffic Pattern ALTITUDE. Typically RVs use 2 seconds between aircraft. Lead starts a 180 turn to the runway at the "perch". The perch is where others would turn base and if at an untowered airport, lead will call turning base. At the perch, bank smartly, reduce power, start your decent, and reduce speed to 90 mph IAS. 1/2 way through the turn, lead will call turning final at an untowered airport continue his decent, and reduce airspeed so as to be at 80 mph IAS on final. (The 180 turn from downwind to final reduces airspeed from 100 mph, to 90 half way through to 80 mph IAS wings level on final.) Lead touches down and the rest of the flight is aproxmately 700-800 feet spacing behind lead all flying the same speed in the patern, maintaining altitude on downwind. Each wingman will lead and lag in the base turn to maintain or develop the corect spacing. (lead in the turn means turn early, lag in the the turn means turn late)

DO NOT TRY THIS without training.

Attend one of the "Formation Clnics" around the country to learn this. There are a couple each year. Find your local RV Formation flyers that have had training and have waiver cards for airshows to show you.

[mgomez]

I got my private license in Argentina, in a Cub. The overhead 360 deg approach was taught to all student pilots, because it was part of the private pilot practical test standards.

It was taught as a great way to do an emergency landing if you lost the engine and the only suitable field was directly underneath you. Engine failures were treated much more seriously in Argentina than they were in the US (I took lessons in the US, too, up to my 1st solo.)

It is a lot of fun to do, and I practice them regularly when the pattern is empty. The tower at my home field (KHEF) doesn't seem to have any issues with it.

And yes, it felt a bit silly to do a maneuver that I associate with fighters in a 60 kt airplane!

Regards,
Martin

[LovelyLibertyRV8a]

I did my first overhead a couple of weeks ago in a rocket. Wow was that fun!!!!!

[Hwood]

Originally Posted by captainron

Or, "Controller's operating initials, and time check, please".

Well, I see it sort of as blackmail, or being held hostage. It seems as soon as the FAA gets involved, they yank the certificate and only then do they start to sort it out. For me, there is a technical term for it, called unemployment. I know it, the tower knows it and that makes for an unbalanced playing field.

It was clearly a runway incursion on behalf of the beechjet, but I'm not about to sit at home without a license and argue my case. At least now I know where I stand with the tower.

[n5lp]

Originally Posted by captainron

Or, "Controller's operating initials, and time check, please".

This is a good thing for everyone to remember. It can cause a lot of sudden humility.

It doesn't always work out though. The one time I used it (I worked for FAA at the time). When I wrote my follow-up letter citing the operating initials I got a phone call reply that the tapes had been mistakenly "erased."

[frankh]

I was flying an instrument departure in actual IMC a few months back...broke into a small hole and found a heavy lift helicopter filling the canopy...He'd apparently turned his mode c off and flew up through a very small hole in the OVC.

Needless to say yours truely had a "BIT" of a problem with such a near death experience!...and lo and behold no record of my DISTINCTIVE British accent or call sign on the tape.

Wonder how that could be?

[airguy]

Originally Posted by n5lp

This is a good thing for everyone to remember. It can cause a lot of sudden humility.

It doesn't always work out though. The one time I used it (I worked for FAA at the time). When I wrote my follow-up letter citing the operating initials I got a phone call reply that the tapes had been mistakenly "erased."

In which case, no violation occurred, so we're all good again.