Can Civilian GA aircraft do the overhead approach / break ?

[asav8tor]

If an aircraft has a wide speed range the overhead break is a very time efficient way to get the airplane on the ground.

Way more efficient to get a formation on the ground.

You could argue from a safety standpoint you have extra margins of energy and altitude to make a forced landing decision by maintaining higher speed and altitude until the breakpoint. Depending on how you fly the final turn you have the runway made at the breakpoint.

The older military aircraft ejection seats had limited capability. The overhead kept the pilot in the envelope. If you fly with a parachute you would be in a more favorable position/energy/zoom & bail state with the overhead. Kind of a long reach though as it appears no one has ever parachuted out of an RV, ever.

Way cooler.


Way more fun.


The problem is this is not taught in the civ world as it is in the military. Guys who haven't been introduced to it, don't understand it, don't want to learn it can become annoyed and agitated about guys doing it. As a former T-37 IP who had the opportunity to introduce for the first time the overhead to many new wide eyed AF pilot hopefuls, I extend the olive branch on behalf of all of us overhead break flyers and want you to know, all are welcome in the overhead.

REF page 58

http://www.vitaf.it/AMVI_Sito/Resour...fman11-248.pdf

[pazmanyflyer]

Originally Posted by wickedsprint

This form of pattern seems a lot more efficient, are we allowed to do it? If we ask for it at a towered field will they even allow it..I assume at an untowered you can probably do whatever you want if noone else is present...

Yes you can, with permission from tower of course.

I was at Glendale airport in AZ (towered) watching traffic and I here the TX of a request for the overhead break from a flight of two. "Flight of two cleared for the overhead". It turns out the flight of two were a Luscomb and Cessna 150. Neat to see nonetheless.

[David-aviator]

Originally Posted by RVbySDI

Brian,
Thanks for the diagram and the link. However, I am still somewhat confused on the overhead break. I would like a little more clarification for my understanding.

The diagram you provided shows the pattern and the link discusses the FAA "regulatory" procedures but both are leaving out a few things that are keeping me confused. What altitude is all of this action taking place? Is this all at pattern altitude? Or, do you come in above the pattern and lose altitude at the break point so that when you make the 180 turn to downwind you are at pattern altitude then? What speeds are you coming in at (I know this must vary by the aircraft capabilities)? Do you just chop the power at some point and come down or do you at some point in the 3-5 NM range decrease power so that the break has you at some partial power setting? What is the benefit in entering the pattern with this maneuver?

Can you, or someone else, give some further descriptions of these and any other details concerning this maneuver?

The procedure originates with the military and is designed to provide for a high speed approach to an airport with minimum exposure to enemy fire and it also provides for recovering fighters quickly with minimum ado.

The F-86 flight hand book does not specify a speed to the break point but as I recall it was SOP to come in at 200 knots or faster. Everyone flew initial at the same speed so as not to be passing anyone. At the break point, the speed brake was popped and power reduced so as to roll out on the down wind at 160-180, in level flight. This could easily be a 2 G turn depending on the approach speed. From there to the runway it is like a normal traffic pattern except it will be close in. Gear and flaps are extended at appropriate speeds. The turn to final is a constant descending turn to the touch down point.

This is fun in an RV because one can approach the airport at 170+ knots, do a tight break to lose airspeed and make a quick close in turn to final at idle power the whole way. It takes a little practice to get it right and to keep from getting too far from the runway. The maneuver if done right is very close in and of course dependent on what the guy ahead of you is doing. Most pilots are accustomed to a mini cross country in the traffic pattern and that habit has to be broken.

[captainron]

Originally Posted by Hwood

Just be careful, you NEVER know who is watching and might have a beef with it. Last week I was given permission for an overhead break by tower, with conflicting traffic landing on a crossing runway. The traffic was going to be clear of the intersection before my landing until he turns off of HIS runway and on to MINE! Tower sends me around...no problem here.....tells me to reenter the pattern.....still no problem, and after landing asks me to call the tower....big problem.

The tower supervisor proceeded to chew my butt and said I was a danger to general aviation. When I asked him to explain, he merely said that if I needed explaining, then perhaps the local FISDO should do it for him. No thanks, you're right, I'm wrong. I'll never do it again, I'm sorry, thanks for the caution, now excuse me while I go puke!

I don't get why you would accept this nonsense from the tower super. If it was as you stated, either he screwed up on his instructions to the other pilot as far as exiting the runway, or the other pilot screwed-up by using your runway as a taxiway. Sounds more like a CYA for the tower and that the supervisor may have been the REAL danger to general aviation! I would have taken him up on the offer to talk to the FSDO. Tell the tower to keep the tapes available!

[pvalovich]

One point not mentioned so far is the point over the runway where the break is initiated. The goal is to establish interval on any aircraft ahead of you in the pattern. ****, around the boat during touch and go's - or to take interval on a bolter - the break turn could be initiated miles ahead of the ship - but I digress.

If interval is not an issue, initiate the break turn so you arrive at the 180 position stable - and comfortable. Normally, a break turn will be initiated over the numbers - but that's not written in stone.

Speed into the break is also a variable. Hot dogs around the boat would break at warp 9 and struggle to reach gear speed in time to roll into the grove! For us, it's a speed where you feel comfortable - and can arrive at the 180 in stable flight.

[rv8ch]

Originally Posted by asav8tor

REF page 58

http://www.vitaf.it/AMVI_Sito/Resour...fman11-248.pdf

Cool doc - I cut this picture from it:

[Low Pass]

Originally Posted by captainron

I don't get why you would accept this nonsense from the tower super. If it was as you stated, either he screwed up on his instructions to the other pilot as far as exiting the runway, or the other pilot screwed-up by using your runway as a taxiway. Sounds more like a CYA for the tower and that the supervisor may have been the REAL danger to general aviation! I would have taken him up on the offer to talk to the FSDO. Tell the tower to keep the tapes available!

"Tower, mark the tapes and please give me *your* name, sir..."

[captainron]

Originally Posted by Low Pass

"Tower, mark the tapes and please give me *your* name, sir..."

Or, "Controller's operating initials, and time check, please".

[mandm1516]

Originally Posted by rv8ch

Cool doc - I cut this picture from it:

Whoa: T-6 cooking in at 2,000 KIAS and 1,000 AGL. Cool drawing.

[AZtailwind]

FWIW my personal goals at the home airport is to use the overhead break for engine out safety and practice(pluss it's a blast) My home pattern Alt is 8,000 feet at KFLG so things are a little different...
-160KTs at the 3 mile initial.
-1 mile initial- check traffic in sight or request with tower for change in plans
-reduce throttle to half just before break (depending on traffic)
-count 2 seconds past numbers or more with more wind
- one last look for traffic, call tower "break"
-look for 2.5G and bank for speed bleed for first 90 of the turn
-2nd 90 is roll out to 30 deg bank looking for 120KTS speed and throttle now almost idle
-very short extend to the perch, 3 seconds max, looking for 100kts, 7,800ft
- last 180 deg turn to the numbers, throttle idle
The sequence practice will be very different, a longer initial and "perch" with a fixed pitch prop and at sea level. That CS prop acts a break when at idle.
As in aerobatics, this maneuver should be presented by an instructor. I'm lucky where ya can't swing a dead cat without hitting an X A6-intruder jock up here. My goal is the last 90 turn at idle and no added power adjustments and touchdown where I planned to be.
Sometimes it actually all works out