Looking for Advice

KWKSLVR · #1 09-10-2008, 01:42 PM

First off, I'm new here and I hope I'm posting this in the right place. I've been lurking around and reading the forums a little bit today and you guys seem to have a great community that I hope to be a member of one day. I'm 28 years old, and I've wanted to get my PPL since before I got my DL and I've never had everything fall in place to do it (made it through ground school but that was it). Things are starting to shape up in that department (I live 2 miles from our local airport, etc) so I'm starting to plan a few things out.

I want to ask advice about a Van's Aircraft as a first plane. Here's my reasoning if you guys will indulge me. I'm an avid outdoorsman, and I have family land that is between 2.5-3 hours away (one way) by car. Even when hunting season rolls around, I don't get out there as much as I would like much less during the off seasons (it's a very rural area). Flying there would cut the trip down to roughly 30 minutes one way. Not to mention that one of these planes is perfect for landing in two of 4 fields that I have.

What I was thinking (and please correct my thoughts and educate me) was this. While I'm spending the time to obtain my PPL here locally logging hours I can concurrently complete a build. I've never built an aircraft before, but I have the following things going for me:

1) I've wrenched on numerous cars. I was a huge car guy in college and I've done everything from oil changes to engine/transmission installs. I've also done some work on boats before (we restored one last summer).

2) One of my good friends is a certified aircraft mechanic (currently making more wrenching on cars so that tells you what he's worth) and he's always wanted to build one.

3) If I needed it I could probably talk a buddy of mine (shop owner) into letting me use one of old boat bays to finish the later stages of the build. Not to mention that he would directly benefit from the plane seeing how he's my hunting buddy.

4) From reading the forums it appears that these really are easy to build, especially with an aircraft mechanic at my disposal.

What I'd really like are just some ideas on how this "plan" sounds to those of you who are older and much more experienced than me (which isn't a hard requirement

). And also, which setup is recommended. I was thinking RV-4 provided there's enough room for 2 rifles and a weekend bag. Thanks for any advice.

danielhv · #2 09-10-2008, 01:52 PM

Well, first off welcome to the board! Ill give you my opinions and advice, as will others:

As far as an RV for a first plane, im kinda mixed. I think if it were me I'd get some time in 172's, cherokee's, etc. then transition later. Reason being is that an RV is not as forgiving as either of the other two, and things can happen alot faster in an RV... and the more hours under you're belt, the better you will be at understanding how everything works, why, what to do in certain situations, etc. Just my opinion.

As far as building an RV in the time it takes to complete you're PPL, I dunno. Depends on you I guess... I'd say average build time is 3 - 4 years... some shorter, many more longer. If you fly 2 - 3 times a week, it shouldnt take you more than a few months to get your PPL.

Now for my advice... Get your PPL, and then build up some time while you are building. Fly places, have some fun, enjoy flying, get some hours under your belt. Maybe even get your intrument rating? That way you're working towards your goal of having an RV, but you're also satisfying your flying bug too.

As far as difficulty... there IS a learning curve that seems to almost never stop. You can learn how to build an airplane just as many others have... but there will always be a better way to do certain things etc. Get some help from local builders to get you started... build the tail section, and if you like the build process, continue building. If not, sell it!

As far as which aircraft, if you like the tandem seating, do an -8. The -4's are much more difficult to build because they are not pre-punched etc. The -4's just arent a good first build choice in comparison to the other models available.

Sid Lambert · #3 09-10-2008, 01:53 PM

It sounds like you have the 2 things required to build. A desire (travel to your land) and motivation (a friend close and that is interested works wonders).

My only advice is to build a modern pre-punched kit like the 7, 8 or 9. The -4 will take much longer to build and to top that off you won't be fitting 2 normal sized guys with guns and winter hunting gear in an RV-4.

rv9av8tr · #4 09-10-2008, 02:02 PM

WOW..... this is stuff books are written on!!

No one has any concept how complex building an aircraft is until you've actually been there done that. I'm in my second year of building an QB RV-9A, and before that, I build a Long-EZ... so I've been there done that.

If you are just wanting an airplane to fly and get from A to B, then buy one.
ONLY build for the sake of having the experience, not for just getting an airplane. Take whatever you think it will cost and the time to build, Times Pi divided by 2!!

Building an airplane is a project of blood sweat and tears... I kid you not. It is a life altering experience, during the build and especially when you finally get to fly it!! Every flight, for 22 yrs of flying my Long-EZ, it was an extraordinary experience to know that here I am, at 16,000 ft, doing 200 mph and I built this! When you build it, you've really earned it!! But like I said, there is a price to pay for it. The real question is, are you ready to set aside that kind of time and money. Do LOTS of soul searching before making the commitment.

I would strongly suggest to hook up with RV builders in your area and get some face to face time with local builders. These guys will be a wealth of insight!

KWKSLVR · #5 09-10-2008, 02:16 PM

It looks like I've opened a can of worms.

So bottom dollar, is it more expensive to build than buy generally speaking, both aircraft equal? It's more than just point A - B but I will admit that the appeal of that particular flight is a large driving force. The appeal of taking off and enjoying myself around "town" on a Sunday is there of course as well.

Here's my line of thinking:
1) I have always wanted to fly
2) I want to fly
3) If I like flying I want to keep flying
4) If I am going to keep flying then I should probably own a plane
5) If I am going to own a plane then I should probably own one that I can get in and out of the farm. I mean, I own a truck to get in and out of the farm, so why not a plane too. Right!?

What do you guys recommend in the seating department? I like tandem because it gives it that miniature WW2 fighter plane look (I have a love obsession with the P-51). But at the same time I don?t want to take away from the passenger?s experience either. Is there really a difference in personal space? For reference, I?m 5?11? 235lbs and slimming down.

Sid Lambert · #6 09-10-2008, 02:20 PM

This is a much bigger can of worms.

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ad.php?t=33820

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWKSLVR

What do you guys recommend in the seating department? I like tandem because it gives it that miniature WW2 fighter plane look (I have a love obsession with the P-51). But at the same time I don?t want to take away from the passenger?s experience either. Is there really a difference in personal space? For reference, I?m 5?11? 235lbs and slimming down.

frankh · #7 09-10-2008, 03:37 PM

This is where i get ex-communicated from VAF!

You want to use it for hunting trips?..How are you going to get the Dead ELK in an RV..ain't gonna happen.

How rough are your grass strips..And RV is good for SMOOTH grass worst case.

How about a Glastar Sportsman or a Zenair 801...MUCH slower but you can get a ton of stuff (and animal flesh) in either of those. Zanair is also built with POP rivets SOO much less work...I know I built one, but they are not prepunched at least when I built one they wern't..The Glastar is pre-punched.

oh and they are ugly too...Hopefully thats enough to not get thrown out of VAF?

Mel · #8 09-10-2008, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rv9av8tr

If you are just wanting an airplane to fly and get from A to B, then buy one.
ONLY build for the sake of having the experience, not for just getting an airplane.
Building an airplane is a project of blood sweat and tears... I kid you not.

Listen to this! This should be quoted more often. If you are not building for the sake of building. DO NOT GET INTO BUILDING!

KWKSLVR · #9 09-10-2008, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankh

This is where i get ex-communicated from VAF!

You want to use it for hunting trips?..How are you going to get the Dead ELK in an RV..ain't gonna happen.

How rough are your grass strips..And RV is good for SMOOTH grass worst case.

How about a Glastar Sportsman or a Zenair 801...MUCH slower but you can get a ton of stuff (and animal flesh) in either of those. Zanair is also built with POP rivets SOO much less work...I know I built one, but they are not prepunched at least when I built one they wern't..The Glastar is pre-punched.

oh and they are ugly too...Hopefully thats enough to not get thrown out of VAF?

Well, we have several 4 Wheelers and a processor 2 miles away (1 gas station in about a 15 mile radius). The grass would need a little work. It's always cut and we have access to heavy equipment. I'll actually be cutting a few more roads soon so doing some smoothing is a cakewalk.

I'll look into the other 2. Hey, I'm a newbie so that's why I ask. I'll take any advice I can get.

sportpilot · #10 09-10-2008, 07:13 PM

building to fly, flying to build, which comes irst the chicken or the egg? Maybe some things to think about. Your going to need to learn about tools. Those other tools youve used may or may not be the same. what tool will do the job right. How do you use that tool? Your going to be required to know thy too and how to use it. Can you read and understand plans and drawings and follow the instructions exactly as required? Sheet metal, you are going to learn all about sheet metal. drilling, bending, cutting, dimpling, riveting. There is an exact requitement for selecting the exactly corret botl, rivet, nut, washer, cotter key or plate nut. @When you boil it all down it is as easy as tying your shoe laces if that is, you are building a Vans RV. There is no better kit available anywhere on earth.