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09-17-2008, 07:59 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 2,904
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Any Mag
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Avgas
A "Mag check" should be a mandatory engine-out protocol in all cases but is often overlooked. That oversight could be fatal with PMAGs.
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Bob,
This statement applies to ALL mag type systems, not just Pmags. You are correct that you should do a mag check in the event of a problem.
The one off field landing that occurred to an RVer happened because he didn't try to isolate the mag and shut the engine down. When I had a similar problem I switched mags and flew on.
It is interesting that some people have lots of problems while others have had none. I also find it interesting that some choose to wire differently than recommended by Emagair and then complain when they have a problem.
We are our own worst enemies sometimes.
__________________
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
www.JDair.com
RV-7 N717EE-Flying (Sold)
RV-7 N717AZ Flying, in paint
EMS Bell 407,
Eurocopter 350 A-Star Driver
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09-17-2008, 09:06 AM
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Senior Curmudgeon
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV7Guy
We are our own worst enemies sometimes.
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Boy, you said a mouthfull there.
And it applies to way more than just P-mags................
__________________
Mike Starkey
VAF 909
Rv-10, N210LM.
Flying as of 12/4/2010
Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011 
Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.
"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
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09-17-2008, 01:08 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Arroyo Grande, CA
Posts: 938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR
With the E/P-mags there is the Emag Air manual and then there is Bob K's Aeroelectric diagrams. Emag Air suggests using 18 AWG wire but Bob's book lists 20 AWG wire. How many people wired these things per Bob's diagrams and then point their fingers at Emag? How about the other wires coming off the E/P-mag, did the people having issues really understand how to wire them and do it correctly, with good connectors?
Also, more than one person has wired them different that either Bob or Emag recommends and have had problems, again, only to point their finger at the product, not the installation.
Ignitions are like fuel systems, if you do something non-standard, you run a risk. Could it be that the fuel line is being blamed, not the installation?
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One electrical column writer told people that they should substitute shielded wire for the 1500V 50 ohm transmission line from the unit to the coils on the LSE ignition; he never specified the voltage rating of the wire. The PI and PIII put out over 500V peak. Also, the shielded wire he recommended had over twice the capacitance per foot of the 50 ohm cable. That extra capacitance has the effect of slowing the rate-of-rise of the primary pulse and imposes greater current loading on the output transistors. When advised by LSE to cease and desist, he ignored them. You would all do well to stick to the recommendations of the manufacturer, whether LSE, E-P Mag, or ElectroAir. To do otherwise and follow someone else's suggestions puts you in the position of being your own electrical engineering specialist and voiding your warranty. When these other well-meaning people tell you to trust them and take their advice on the wire types, ask them if they will assume the product warranty if you follow their recommendation!
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09-17-2008, 01:28 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Kalifornia
Posts: 466
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Discussion
The Multiple failures reported and later removed from this site are being discussed actively and rationally on the canard forums with a lot of good question and answer sessions. Much better than the head in sand approach.... 
As it turns out the failure rate is much higher than reported, particularly by the planes reporting 20 whole hours of troublefree service!
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09-17-2008, 01:43 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 1,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVadmirer
The Multiple failures reported and later removed from this site are being discussed actively and rationally on the canard forums with a lot of good question and answer sessions. Much better than the head in sand approach.... 
As it turns out the failure rate is much higher than reported, particularly by the planes reporting 20 whole hours of troublefree service!
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Could you provide a Link?
__________________
Sonny W
Boise, Idaho
RV-7A Flying!
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09-17-2008, 01:53 PM
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Senior Curmudgeon
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVadmirer
The Multiple failures reported and later removed from this site are being discussed actively and rationally on the canard forums with a lot of good question and answer sessions. Much better than the head in sand approach.... 
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David, just in case you missed it, take a look at this thread.
The moderation/deletion activities here at VAF are not as you say a "Head in the sand" approach, but are in fact as Doug says in his comment.
It seems you are pretty passionate about this issue, and considering the troubles you have had ( I went back and re-read your comments on Lightspeed) you have good reason to be, which is fine.
But please dont look for non existent bogymen hiding in the shadows.
Live long and prosper.
__________________
Mike Starkey
VAF 909
Rv-10, N210LM.
Flying as of 12/4/2010
Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011 
Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.
"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
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09-17-2008, 01:55 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 1,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lostpilot28
Could you provide a Link?
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I already read the 3 part post...how about a link to the forums? Thanks.
__________________
Sonny W
Boise, Idaho
RV-7A Flying!
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09-17-2008, 03:23 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bozeman, Montana
Posts: 858
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Head in Sand?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike S
(snip)
The moderation/deletion activities here at VAF are not as you say a "Head in the sand" approach, but are in fact as Doug says in his comment.
(snip)
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Mike, what I got out of Doug's comment on the moderation was that he had been threatened with a lawsuit for less. He didn't say that was what happened in this instance. I think it was overmoderation to remove that post. What if someone dies because they did not read that post? What about that lawsuit? You could make a credible argument that VAF is THE source for information related to RV aircraft. When that source effectively eliminates what could be life or death information, and then someone dies because they didn't have that information, is that source not liable in some way? I am no lawyer, and I don't play one on TV either  .
I thought that post was very informative and passed the "be nice" test. I was disappointed when it disappeared.
Hans
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09-17-2008, 05:03 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
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Hans,
I read the post, it is on another RV builder's site, and it sounded like so much spam. I like the line where he asks people to forward his note to everyone he knows and how he got upset when Emagair didn't take his advice.
Well, they must have taken someone's advice because they have a fix, one that has been reviewed by an engineer.
Also, anyone who continues to fly a plane with a known bad mag has questionable decision making skills. I don't care who made the mag. When I read his entire note, the above mentioned decision making skills left me to question everything in his post. For instance, if his engine was vibrating enough to cause the P-mags to come apart when they were firing properly, why in the world was he flying it. That tells me it is time to investigate what is going on with the engine. I also wonder if it vibrated enough to ruin the P-mags, what has it done to the engine mount and other systems.
The entire note struck me as someone who was trying to blame Emagair for his engine problems, when it was his engine that caused the Pmag problem.
Just my $.02 worth.
(Yes, I have two P-mags. Yes, I understand their experimental nature. Yes, I will keep the faith.)
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
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09-17-2008, 09:13 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 1,095
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Well said, Bill...I was thinking the same thing. My jaw almost hit the ground when he said he took off again with only 1 ignition source! 
__________________
Sonny W
Boise, Idaho
RV-7A Flying!
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