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09-15-2008, 12:25 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 96
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Email today from Emagair with 9/12 service bulletin link
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09-15-2008, 04:50 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Round Rock, TX
Posts: 3,778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullojm1
Steve-
I sent you a PM with a link to the article. Looks like it got deleted by the moderators.
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Mike,
I'll take a copy of the link too please. Heck, my last post got nuked too... is it Monday or what? Oops!
TIA,
__________________
Reiley
Retired N622DR - Serial #V7A1467
VAF# 671
Repeat Offender / Race 007
Friend of the RV-1
Last edited by LifeofReiley : 09-15-2008 at 05:11 PM.
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09-16-2008, 01:43 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: N. Yorkshire, England
Posts: 1,050
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Mike - that was a really interesting article. Thanks!
I cant say I agree with the writer over all, but he does make some interesting points and increased my knowledge which is what its all about.
I am delighted with my P-mags, and if I have a bad experience will have to put it down to the fact that those of us that have chosen to go this route are early adopters. We have the choice after all! I am relying on the fact that it is very unlikely that both will fail catastrophically together in time.
What is really sad is that the forum police see it necessary to remove such an article. I thought you were the 'land of the free' over there! Hey ho! I guess this will get deleted. [ed. Steve, I've been threatened with lawsuits for less radioactive content by companies in the past, so please understand me when I say I take this stuff seriously. I deleted the post in question and will do it again. If you don't agree I'm sorry and respect that, but it's my sandbox and I'm thinking about my family's financial future here. DR]
Thanks again,
Last edited by DeltaRomeo : 09-16-2008 at 05:17 AM.
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09-16-2008, 06:37 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
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Could it be the installation?
One thing I have noticed about the E/P-mag issues posted her and elsewhere is that no two installations seem to be the same.
Could it be that the issues people are having with these units are related to their installation?
With traditional mags, the installation is well understood and thus they are more than likely installed per the manual.
With the E/P-mags there is the Emag Air manual and then there is Bob K's Aeroelectric diagrams. Emag Air suggests using 18 AWG wire but Bob's book lists 20 AWG wire. How many people wired these things per Bob's diagrams and then point their fingers at Emag? How about the other wires coming off the E/P-mag, did the people having issues really understand how to wire them and do it correctly, with good connectors?
Also, more than one person has wired them different that either Bob or Emag recommends and have had problems, again, only to point their finger at the product, not the installation.
Ignitions are like fuel systems, if you do something non-standard, you run a risk. Could it be that the fuel line is being blamed, not the installation?
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
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09-16-2008, 09:34 AM
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My thoughts exactly
Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR
One thing I have noticed about the E/P-mag issues posted her and elsewhere is that no two installations seem to be the same.
Could it be that the issues people are having with these units are related to their installation?
With traditional mags, the installation is well understood and thus they are more than likely installed per the manual.
With the E/P-mags there is the Emag Air manual and then there is Bob K's Aeroelectric diagrams. Emag Air suggests using 18 AWG wire but Bob's book lists 20 AWG wire. How many people wired these things per Bob's diagrams and then point their fingers at Emag? How about the other wires coming off the E/P-mag, did the people having issues really understand how to wire them and do it correctly, with good connectors?
Also, more than one person has wired them different that either Bob or Emag recommends and have had problems, again, only to point their finger at the product, not the installation.
Ignitions are like fuel systems, if you do something non-standard, you run a risk. Could it be that the fuel line is being blamed, not the installation?
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I've often thought the exact same thing. Some installations try to reduce the number of switches, use a standard mag key switch, incorporate a "maintenance" switch somewhere under the hood, use pullable breakers, hard-wire to the battery bus, etc. While any/all of these options may work, my initial thought was that they just complicate the situation.
I have four SPST switches: a power switch for each P-mag, and a spark (commonly referred to as a p-lead) switch for each P-mag. Nothing is combined with anything, and I can manipulate the switches appropriately to do what I need to do. Here are some examples:
Setup mode: Turn on the power switches, leave the spark switches off.
Run mode: Turn on the power switches, turn on the spark switches.
Mag check (dual P-mags): Run the engine up, turn off the power switches. Now both P-mags are running on internal power. Turn off one spark switch, see RPM drop, turn it back on. Do the same for the other spark switch. Then turn back on both power switches and you're done. You just checked the spark generating capability and internal power sources of each P-mag independently. If something doesn't work right in this test, further investigation (proper switch manipulation) will reveal whether the problem is with self-power generation or spark generation.
I have 75 trouble-free hours on my P-mags and really like the product. Their customer service is also very good. However, I do have issues with their record-keeping. For example, they should know (by serial number) exactly which units are affected by the latest SB, but they don't because they didn't keep those records. Having to take the units off the engine to look in a little hole with a flashlight and magnifying glass is a PITA and could have been prevented by better record keeping.
Also, all of their features are not available in all of the units -- even though they may look identical, some units have different circuit boards inside which may or may not support some of the EICAD-related adjustments. The manual doesn't mention this, and you have know way of knowing. I *think* this may be what's preventing them from moving towards firmware updates in the field -- something they really need to do. Some firmware isn't compatible with some of the actual hardware on some versions of their circuit boards. I know this from personal experience.
That said, I like the product and I'd buy it again. It sure is a lot "cleaner" than the other ignition systems from an installation standpoint.
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09-16-2008, 10:13 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bozeman, Montana
Posts: 858
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Definitely Early Adopter Syndrome
I have to agree with the early adopter designation. I haven't run my engine yet and this will be the second time that I may have to send these things back for an update. I haven't done the inspection yet. I really question the judgement of these guys adding things that are really unnecessary, like the software timing, I just don't see any problems that it solves and many potential problems that it introduces. It makes me wonder about the wisdom of many other decisions they make that I don't know about. I also agree that the connector is less than stellar.
That said, I haven't given up yet, as I see many potential benefits, but this is strike two for against the P-Mags for me.
Magnetos and Lightpeeds have their issues too.
Hans
Superior IO-360 with Dual P-Mags
RV-6A 99% done!
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09-16-2008, 07:35 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 769
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Visited factory today
I drove my two PMAGs up to the EMAG factory today for the SB upgrade. Had a good talk with Brad regarding the SB. Saw the design changes, heard about the mechanical design review that has occurred, and am anxious to get mine back so we can make another trip. I also heard the other side of the story regarding Mark's issues. We all know there are two sides to every disagreement. I will continue to use my PMAGs in my RV7a. Looking forward to adding to the 409 hours we have put on our RV7a in the last 18 months.
__________________
Tom Lewis
RV7a N967BT 1900 hrs.
RV10 N143EB 960 hrs.
Granbury, Tx
http://bit.ly/2bnimsZ
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09-16-2008, 07:37 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Huskerland, USA
Posts: 5,862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommylewis
Looking forward to adding to the 409 hours we have put on our RV7a in the last 18 months.
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....and I thought I flew alot! Wheeew! 
__________________
RV-7 : In the hangar
RV-10 : In the hangar
RV-12 : Built and sold
RV-44 : 4 place helicopter on order.
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09-17-2008, 12:40 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Sampson
I am delighted with my P-mags........ I am relying on the fact that it is very unlikely that both will fail catastrophically together in time.
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Past history has shown a propensity for PMAGs to lose timing for one reason or another. If one PMAG suddenly gives you very advanced timing it could cause the engine to lose power or quit completely....despite the fact that the other PMAG is in perfect condition. A "Mag check" should be a mandatory engine-out protocol in all cases but is often overlooked. That oversight could be fatal with PMAGs.
__________________
You’re only as good as your last landing 
Bob Barrow
RV7A
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09-17-2008, 05:45 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: N. Yorkshire, England
Posts: 1,050
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Bob, I entirely agree with that.
There is an advantage though in that they are normally so smooth any problem even very small, with either would show very clearly. Turning one off then the other would make a very quick and easy diagnosis of which was misbehaving since the engine is normally very smooth running on just one with very little loss of power.
Yes they have had a few teething problems, not many, and I remain delighted.
Steve.
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