A Really Dumb Rivet Question

flickroll · #1 07-22-2008, 08:57 PM

I have started construction of an RV8 empennage kit. I have a dumb question regarding orientation of the rivets on the horizontal and vertical stab spars. Which way do the shop heads go, forward, aft, or does it matter? I've looked everywhere and cannot find reference to this. Thanks

Jamie · #2 07-22-2008, 09:02 PM

There's no such thing as dumb question, only dumb building by continuing on without knowing what to do.

This has been discussed quite a bit on here but it's probably one of those things that's hard to find with the search engine.

The general rule of thumb is to orient the rivets so the shop head is on the thicker material. If you put the shop head on the thinner material it may distort the material which is why you put it on the thicker side.

scard · #3 07-22-2008, 09:11 PM

I agree with Jamie's comments, however, also understand that it isn't a hard and fast rule. If you're able to set a much better rivet in one direction or the other, do whatever works best for the given situation. If you end up folding the rivet over just to get it oriented on the "right" side...

danielhv · #4 07-22-2008, 09:24 PM

agreed with both of the above comments... Sometimes, when I'm confused as to what side to put the shop head on with two peices of equal thickness, I just look at Brad's site and copy what he did!

He's building a -7, but still a great site. (http://www.rv7factory.com)

Flying Scotsman · #5 07-23-2008, 12:55 AM

One more thing to consider...repairs. Not that I *ever* want to drill out a mess o' rivets to replace a part or effect a repair, when faced with a choice (like thicknesses of metal, etc.), we try to opt for having the factory head on the most accessible side, figuring if there is *ever* a need for repair, it'll be way easier to drill out the rivet.

Of course, this is probably waaaay overkill and thinking too much about it...

Pirkka · #6 07-23-2008, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie

The general rule of thumb is to orient the rivets so the shop head is on the thicker material. If you put the shop head on the thinner material it may distort the material which is why you put it on the thicker side.

Van's has not specified direction in any way so don't see why not follow this. It will be strong enough build either way.

http://home.earthlink.net/~gilalex/rivet_spec/rivet_a.htm

MILITARY SPECIFICATION (MIL-R-47196A) - RIVETS, BUCK TYPE, PREPARATION FOR AND INSTALLATION OF

"3.3 Installation.
3.3.3.1 Head direction. Unless specified on the engineering drawing or specification, the manufactured head of the rivet shall be located on exterior surfaces."

flickroll · #7 07-23-2008, 05:54 AM

Great comments and suggestions. Thanks everyone.

Jim Shannon

STINGRAY · #8 07-23-2008, 09:19 AM

FWIW, I thought about rivet replacement at some point in the future and that it is recomended that factory heads go forward. However, when actual rivet setting time presented itself, I did shop heads aft because - It was much easier to set with a squeezer and a better job done. The sqweezer yoke was a little too deep to clear the spar flange. So there you are! Ya I did figure out that I could have reversed the sets but it's done.

STINGRAY · #9 07-23-2008, 09:21 AM

FWIW, I thought about rivet replacement at some point in the future and that it is recomended that factory heads go forward. However, when actual rivet setting time presented itself, I did shop heads aft because - It was much easier to set with a squeezer and a better job done. The squeezer yoke was a little too deep to clear the spar flange. So there you are! Ya I did figure out that I could have reversed the sets but it's done.

jmartinez443 · #10 07-23-2008, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flickroll

I have started construction of an RV8 empennage kit. I have a dumb question regarding orientation of the rivets on the horizontal and vertical stab spars. Which way do the shop heads go, forward, aft, or does it matter? I've looked everywhere and cannot find reference to this. Thanks

I did it both ways (built two HS's - don't ask). I did my second HS with the manufactured heads facing out because on the first one the shop heads kept interfering with squeezing the skin rivets. My pneumatic squeezer actually nibbled the shop heads on a couple of them. Besides, I think it looks much better with the man'ned heads facing out. Feel free to follow my follies here: http://www.rv8alog.com/empennage/empennage.htm