Mixing Pleasure with Business

339A · #1 07-20-2008, 05:38 PM

As some of you know, I get to fly my 9A to various work projects around the country to which I may be assigned. I am fortunate in that I work for a small company and they allow me to do this!! I can be gone anywhere from a few days to several weeks, it all depends on what is involved with the project in question.
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This past week was no exception as I was sent off to the City of Lamar, Colorado; a close-to-home job site for sure, unusual as this is for my job. It was sort of a last-minute thing that wasn?t on my schedule. (Summers are typically the only slow time for us, so I?ve been trying to get some honey-dos done at home.) We needed to be there on Monday and would probably be there for two or three days. I sent all my tools and test equipment with my boss who was driving down and told him I?d meet him there. It?s about a four-hour drive from Denver to Lamar, but only about an hour by RV. I packed up some clothes, grabbed the laptop, and off I went.

It was about 12:30 when I got airborne. It was a bumpy and hot Colorado afternoon ride but fun nonetheless; heck I was flying my RV somewhere for free!!. Landed at Lamar and spoke with David Payne, owner of Lamar Flying Service, and he tucked the plane away in a hangar for free. I called for a ride, and one of the guys from the City of Lamar power plant (where I would be working for the next couple of days) came by and picked me up.

Next day, Tuesday, we find out that some of the parts we need to complete our work are not on site. They were supposed to be supplied by the City but were back ordered. It just so happens that we keep these same parts in stock at the office back in Denver. So I sez to the men in charge, ?I have my plane here. I can fly to Centennial airport, if I have too?. ;-) and have someone from our office bring the parts to me and be back here in a couple of hours.? Sounded good to them as they are waaayyy behind on this project and needed to get this part done ASAP. Sometimes work can be such a drag.

Back to the Lamar airport and off to Centennial I go. An hour later, I?m there and five minutes after that my co-worker shows up with the much-needed parts. (Note here that Denver Jet Center is charging a ten dollar ramp fee for using their space unless you eat or buy gas. I needed to eat lunch anyway and it wasn?t coming out of my pocket, so why not?) Had a nice lunch at the Perfect Landing restaurant and then it was back in the plane and headed toward Lamar. An hour later, I called the plant and they sent someone out to pick me up with goods in hand.

The rest of that day and Wednesday was spent getting everything installed. Testing and checkout was Thursday morning and with that I was done. Packed up my tools, loaded up the boss?s Yukon, hitched a ride back to the airport courtesy of the City of Lamar, fueled up 339A, and headed off to Front Range airport. After landing at home, I cleaned the plane, took care of a few maintenance items, and headed home to Littleton.
Well, that?s my short travel story. I guess the moral of the story is that you don?t have to be taking a long trip to enjoy flying in your RV. I got to log a little over four hours flying time this week on the boss?s dime, so it just goes to show what having your own plane can do for you. I am fortunate to work for a company that allows me to use my homebuilt airplane for work travel, and believe me I know just how fortunate I am! With the price of fuel getting higher all the time, it?s nice to have other ?resources? to be able to fly.
I know it?s gotten to be a clich?, but keep pounding those rivets . . . it will all be worth it!

Flyrod · #2 08-11-2008, 08:10 AM

Scott,

Enjoyed your trip write up. It is nice when you can have your employer pay for your gas! I have managed to get about 17 free flying hours myself. Hoping to have more in the near future.

keithschult · #3 08-11-2008, 09:32 AM

Since the family business sold I have continued to work for the new owners and often I travel to my clients in my 6A. Because of the rules concerning Private Pilot expenses I don't get reimbursed nor paid for the use of my airplane, nor do I charge for it, but I get paid by the satisfaction of my clients and the freedom I experience. It is so much better than riding the airlines. I live in the Kansas City area and I will use the 6A for any trip, no matter how far, even to Orlando, or Las Vegas, or San Francisco.

Before the sale of the business, we owned a company plane and since it was used strictly for business all costs were written off. The new owners didn't see the value of that so it was sold. I then purchased my 6A. They now benefit financially but I get the benefit of rejuvenation.

I fly VFR but have never disappointed a client with a time line yet, though they know to expect it some day. My delays because of weather have been always on the return trip home.

It is one of the truly liberating experiences in the work-a-day world for me.

Steve Brown · #4 08-11-2008, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keithschult

..... Because of the rules concerning Private Pilot expenses I don't get reimbursed nor paid for the use of my airplane, nor do I charge for it........

As long as flying is incidental to the conduct of your business and that flying itself is not your business.

Last year I was job hunting and had several interviews that involved travel. I requested and got reimbursed based on the mileage, just as though I was driving a car.

My understanding is that this is perfectly legal since I am not flying for compensation or hire.

Sid Lambert · #5 08-11-2008, 02:06 PM

I think the real issue is if you crash and kill yourself or someone on the ground, who fronts that bill?

I see it as no different that driving my car to see a client but I'm sure some companies see it much differently.

Bubblehead · #6 08-11-2008, 04:19 PM

I think Steve is right. If you are flying to/from the work site everything is cool and you can be fully reimbursed just as if you flew commercial and were reimbursed for the tickets.

I've gotten about 300 hours in nice planes reimbursed from my (then) employer. V-35, C-210, T-210, A-36 and M-231 on trips from the rockies to the Atlantic coast.

It wasn't liability issues that stopped my flying on business. The corporate flight department put up a big stink!

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted!

dreamtime · #7 08-11-2008, 04:34 PM

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but my read of the FARS has been the same as Steve Brown's. As long as the transportation is incidental to the business, and you aren't getting paid for the flying, the costs of using your airplane for business travel can be reimbursed.

David

339A · #8 08-11-2008, 04:40 PM

Quote:

As long as flying is incidental to the conduct of your business and that flying itself is not your business.

I researched this also before I started using my plane. There have been several times when I could not get out of FTG due to weather which then forced me to buy an airline ticket and fly commercial to wherever....

BTW I really, really despise airline travel anymore. I still have to do it from time to time. I just can't stand the airport shuffle and dealing with the wonderful folks of the TSA. I can (depending on where I am traveling) usually make better time in the RV than the airlines. As I am usually going to a remote area away from a major hub. With the RV I can get right where I need to be and finding a rental car is not a problem generally speaking. I used to have United Premier Executive status but have since lost that thanks to the RV

Understand that I am NOT paid to fly my airplane as that would be breaking the rule but, I can have my expenses reimbursed.

keithschult · #9 08-12-2008, 08:06 AM

I'm curious: when you guys say "expenses" are you referring as well to engine reserve, insurance, home hangar fees, repairs, maintenance, etc., or just fuel, oil, & transient tie down expenses? The latter I get reimbursed for, but the former I don't.

339A · #10 08-12-2008, 09:26 AM

Well, I'm a big fan of common-sense interpretation of anything that I read. This applies to the FARs also (although I'm sure common sense applies w/the FAA)

61.113 PRIVATE PILOT PRIVILEGES AND LIMITATIONS: PILOT IN COMMAND

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) through (g) of this section, no person who holds a private pilot certificate may act as pilot in command of an aircraft that is carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire; nor may that person, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft.

This first part is the rule, and it is quite obvious that they don't want us Private Pilots getting paid for doing anything with our airplanes. This makes certain that the 5000 plus RVers out there don't start air taxi businesses flying people wherever and getting paid for it.

There are, however, several Exceptions to the rule and in true Government fashion, they are listed after the rule. The one that concerns me is the very first one listed:

(b) A private pilot may, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft in connection with any business or employment if:

(1)The flight is only incidental to that business or employment; and

(2)The aircraft does not carry passengers or property for compensation or hire.

In this instance, I satisfy the requirement of "b" and its two qualifiers.

So ...

Quote:

I'm curious: when you guys say "expenses" are you referring as well to engine reserve, insurance, home hangar fees, repairs, maintenance, etc., or just fuel, oil, & transient tie down expenses? The latter I get reimbursed for, but the former I don't.

It is clear that as stated in "b", A private pilot may,for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft in connection with any business or employment

It is this exception that allows us to be compensated. What exactly can we consider fair compensation? That is the question. Further down in exception "e" it states the following:

A private pilot may be reimbursed for aircraft operating expenses that are directly related to search and location operations, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees, ... (emphasis added)

While this exception pertains to search and rescue, it is the only place where they give us some idea of what they consider "fair" compensation. This exception allows fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees to be Compensated for.

This is what I use a basis for my compensation. While the word compensation is open for discussion, it would appear that the FARs give us some indication as to what may be compensated.

It is obvious that they don't want us being paid as Private Pilot's to fly people or equipment around, but they are not opposed to someone being "compensated" for using their airplane for business.