Forget about ethanol and biodiesel

SvingenB · #1 07-14-2008, 05:25 PM

The EU has changed 180 degrees (more or less) on biofuels. To me this means only one thing: E85 and biodiesel will dissapear from gas stations very soon, at least here in Europe, with the side effect that mogas can be used on my future RV

. The irony of it all is that the pressure to stop biofuels have come from environmental groups (especially Greenpeace) and the UN

The same reversal is bound to happen in the US as well I guess.

http://euobserver.com/19/26454

rv8ch · #2 07-14-2008, 08:45 PM

This seems like good news. Thanks for sharing it. I'm curious how the increase in the price of oil has affected Norway. Are your taxes being lowered, or is the increase in revenue being saved up for a "rainy day"?

RScott · #3 07-14-2008, 08:48 PM

We can only hope. The issue here is so politically charged that it will take a pretty strong case to force politicians to back peddle in an election year.

Geico266 · #4 07-15-2008, 04:49 AM

When 200 bushels of corn is processed into ethanol you still have 190 bushels of livestock feed left. All that is removed is the sugar. You don't use 200 bushes of corn. The "left" doesn't tell you that. Feeding livestock is what 90% of corn is used for in the US.

In addition, we have 35 million acres of idle, productive, tillable land in CRP (Conservation Reserve Program) doing nothing but growing grass that we could and should put into production to take advantage of the ethanol market, and world demand.

Is it just me, or is the lastest poop coming out of Washington about new oil wells taking 7 years to bring in the first barrel of oil into production so it not worth drilling. I plan on being here, flying in 7 years, how about you? I say start drilling NOW and stop talking about it. BTW, it takes less than 18 months to drill & get the oil flowing into production in the middle east, why can't we do that here? Government regulation & environmental wackos.

TSwezey · #5 07-15-2008, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geico266

When you process 200 bushels of corn into ethanol you still have 190 bushels of feed grain left, all that is used is the sugar. You don't use 200 bushes of corn. Feeding livestock is what 90% of corn is used for in the US. The "left" doesn't tell you that.

In addition, we have 35 million acres of land in CRP (Conservation Reserve Program) doing nothing but growing grass that we could and should put into production to take advantage of the ethanol market, and world demand.

Is it just me, or is the lastest poop coming out of Washington about new oil wells taking 7 years to bring in the first barrel of oil into production so it not worth doing. I plan on being here, flying in 7 years, how about you? I say start drilling NOW and stop talking about it.

Besides we have come up with more efficient ways to produce ethanol. In Georgia they are building a plant to convert pine trees to ethanol. It is suppose to be a lot more efficient at creating ethanol. I think it uses half the energy to produce one gallon that corn uses.

Geico266 · #6 07-15-2008, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSwezey

Besides we have come up with more efficient ways to produce ethanol. In Georgia they are building a plant to convert pine trees to ethanol. It is suppose to be a lot more efficient at creating ethanol. I think it uses half the energy to produce one gallon that corn uses.

I'm all for it, but before you do the energy calculation remember with corn you still have 95% of the end product to use to feed livestock. In addition, ethanol has to be consumed locally. It cannot travel in pipelines, and trucking it is counter productive. Using corn in the Midwest makes sense here, trees in GA makes sense for y'all.

It is hard to break a bad habit.

Good point though, new technologies are coming for road fuels and that is a good thing.

What cracks me up is I hear people say; "Ethanol does not give you as good of mileage as gasoline."

The point is we have to stop burning gasoline so comparing your mileage to gasoline is pretty silly.

frankh · #7 07-15-2008, 09:22 AM

On the one hand I am feeling the pain at the pump like everyone else..I'm certainly not wealthy enough to not care.

However, here in the US we have been particularly gluttonous and our appetite for gasoline is outrageous...Now before you all flame me I understand that a lot of that is the great distances we have to drive..On the other we have had no desire to curb our appetite....A new car...lets put 200hp plus under the hood...A new truck.... Hang on a minute..In Europe they don't know what a "Truck" is!

My Wife was complaining the other day that it will be much more expensive to haul her horse to the Summer horse shows..

OK being from the UK I can only shake my head and point out that 1) in the UK its highly unlikely you'd be able to afford a horse and as for 2) hauling it to shows...Well, the only horses that get hauled anywhere are top flight race horses.

Sorry but our privilaged lifestyle is gonna have to change and be more in line with the rest of the world..Gas is going to $5 plus and we'd better deal with it..Sadly it will make a dent in avaiation but maybe we'll be better at conserving resource and get better at finding alternatives.

As for drilling..well lets get on with it cus the high oil price it sure ain't helping our economy or my retirement fund!

Frank

BigSky · #8 07-15-2008, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SvingenB

The EU has changed 180 degrees (more or less) on biofuels. To me this means only one thing: E85 and biodiesel will dissapear from gas stations very soon, at least here in Europe, with the side effect that mogas can be used on my future RV

. The irony of it all is that the pressure to stop biofuels have come from environmental groups (especially Greenpeace) and the UN

The same reversal is bound to happen in the US as well I guess.

http://euobserver.com/19/26454

Awesome! I know it's bad news for farmers but good news for the rest of us.

BigSky · #9 07-15-2008, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geico266

Is it just me, or is the lastest poop coming out of Washington about new oil wells taking 7 years to bring in the first barrel of oil into production so it not worth drilling. I plan on being here, flying in 7 years, how about you? I say start drilling NOW and stop talking about it. BTW, it takes less than 18 months to drill & get the oil flowing into production in the middle east, why can't we do that here? Government regulation & environmental wackos.

Sorry for the double post, but I'm with you. I heard yesterday that President Bush just rescinded an executive order banning offshore drilling (thank goodness). So, there is going to be a battle about that now with Congress. But I say let's drill in AK too. It's the biggest state in the Union (I think over half the size of the lower 48 combined) and only about 600,000 people in the entire state. Heck, San Antonio has over twice that many people alone. A little drilling isn't going to hurt anything. Besides, Congress doesn't seem to complain about the same drilling going on over the middle east probably causing some bug to go extinct.

I am all for some alternative form of energy but it has to make sense. This Ethanol train was never and will never be viable (unless we find a way to grow alot more corn than we do now and a better cheaper way to refine it) and never made economic sense, to the government anyway. The pine tree thing sounds good but that would probably increase the cost of lumber, causing home prices to go up. So we will still have something to complain about and the environmentalists will of course go balistic (e.g. "WTF do you think your doing! cutting down trees!?! You are raping the land! Don't you know trees don't grow back!).

If we move to another form of energy let's have it be better than what we use now. I know it's taken about 100 years to get the engine where it is today, but at least let's have the potential for greatness rather than trying to revive a dead horse from the start.

RV8iator · #10 07-15-2008, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geico266

.

Good point though, new technologies are coming for road fuels and that is a good thing.

What cracks me up is I hear people say; "Ethanol does not give you as good of mileage as gasoline."

The point is we have to stop burning gasoline so comparing your mileage to gasoline is pretty silly.

The only problem I see with this statement is I still only have a 42 gallon capacity. I am definitely interested in the efficiency of a fuel. If it is only 60 percent as efficient as 100L that makes my plane about 40% less efficient to travel in.

We have to come up with alternatives, but to just quit using and searching for oil in the meantime is not the smartest thing. The alternate fuel ferry can't wave a wand and power all our transportation needs for years to come.