Shoot or squeeze?

[Michael Burbidge]

I took a builders class and they taught in the class that when setting rivets, choose the method for setting in the following priority, c-frame, back-rivet, squeeze, shoot.

I try to follow this advice except for when I can choose between shooting or squeezing. I find that I have much more control and better results shooting over squeezing. It is not supposed to be that way. But I find it very difficult to avoid bending rivets over when squeezing, particularly if the rivet is at all long.

I just bought a pneumatic squeezer with the hopes that it would be easier to squeeze rivets, without bending them, or having them tip a bit. But I'm a bit disappointed. I still find it much easier to shoot a rivet cleanly. I'm wishing I would have spend my money on another size titanium bucking bar, rather than the new squeezer.

Maybe I need some lessons. What are others experience?

[Andy_RR]

I find shooting much easier than squeezing with a hand squeezer. I was contemplating buying a pneumatic squeezer, but since you've posted, I'm not so keen.

I find that squeezing a rivet runs the risk of the countersunk head rising up in the countersink and locking there as the rivet expands and engages with the hole diameter. Then it's time for the drill... arrgghh!!

A tungsten bucking bar and a non-swivel head I have found produces some impressive results when a little masking tape holds the rivet in place (and provides a little friction to stop the mushroom slipping)

A

[FredMagare]

Go with what you're most comfortable with and that which gives you the best results. If you're going to squeeze a rivet (I use a pneumatic), ensure the tail is centered on the die before you apply pressure. When I've gotten in a hurry and the sqeezer wasn't centered, I'd just end-up bending the rivet over! (Gives me an opportunity to practice my rivet removal skills.)

Learn the different ways but use what works best.

[Bob Brown]

I built a whole airplane without using a C-frame to smash one single rivet. I tried a couple of times, but there just seemed to be easier ways. I would rank my preferenece as back riveting, squeezer, buck n shoot. The trick using a squeezer is to apply some downward pressure to the manufactured head of the rivet with the yoke while you begin the squeeze. The advantage to squeezing is speed. Every now and then you'll put in a bad rivet and you'll need to drill it out, which is simply another skill of sheet metal work you'll learn. Luckily, there'll be many opportunities for practice...

[rv9aviator]

You just need more practice with the Pneumatic squeezer to get comfortable with it. You have to be square on the rivet. Don't hold the squeezer real tight and install a few rivets in some scrap. You will feel the squeezer tilt one way or the other if you are not at a right angle with the rivet. The squeezer will try to align itself. Also press the trigger slowly until the ram touches the rivet then making sure you are aligned then press the trigger on down. I have had great success with mine, but I found there are places where shooting works better and one of them is on trailing edges on moving surfaces. I got straighter edges on my flaps and ailerons by using a back rivet plate instead of squeezing them. Once you get the feel for the Pneumatic squeezer to quote Charlton Heston, They will have to pry it from your "cold dead hands".
Good luck!

[Rick6a]

I suspect your problem is related to technique or possibly improperly set-up, maybe even defective equipment. I've never used a C-frame to set rivets so I can't comment on that technique.

Opinions vary widely and it is pointless to issue blanket statements on the matter because no two builders possess or have access to the exact same tools. Some high profile builders have insisted that a "C" squeeze is preferable and has greater utility than an alligator type squeezer. I submit that notion is misinformed and not based on practical experience using both types of squeezers.

So for me, my favorite method by far is using a (deep throat) pneumatic alligator squeezer. Mine is capable of setting AD6 rivets yet has enough finesse to set AD3 rivets. I know most builders never even saw one, yet not counting the exterior rivets on the skins has set at least 75% of the remaining rivets in my RV's. I completely built and finished the RV8 empennage kit in 3 weeks in no small part by using it to dimple holes and set rivets. That is no idle boast or exaggeration and here is a short video link that demonstrates just how fast dimpling operations were conducted on the empennage kit using the alligator squeezer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR2giHt2Mi0

Next in personal preference is using a pneumatic "C" squeezer, then hand squeezer and finally, shooting rivets with a standard rivet gun.

[RV7ator]

Huh? Unless we're suffering mismatched vocabulary, recommending as a first choice bashing rivets in a C-frame is - bluntly - ridiculous. First, hardly anything you'll be assembling will fit into the frame. Then there's the problem of controlling the whack, not just your hammer, but also stabilizing the workpiece. Muy, muy importante. Clamp your work firmly as possible to hold it steady while you concentrate on riveting.

Use what works for you and for access, the latter point means 90% of an RV has to be shot, so you'll get good. Tipped rivets are very common with a squeezer. What helps alleviate that is using the stiffest yoke possible, and being very careful to align the ram/set faces along the rivet center line. This is where a hand squeezer shines because the long fixed handle provides a nice visual guide for alignment.

John Siebold
Boise, ID

[Don Jones]

I absolutely prefer the squeezer. I bought the pneumatic squeezer and use it for everything I can. Like Rick, it is all about the technique. It is so much faster once you get the hang of it. You can have my c-frame, used it to dimple one skin, absolutely hated the thing. Bought the DRDT-2, what an awesome difference that is as well.

[cytoxin]

Originally Posted by Andy_RR

A tungsten bucking bar and a non-swivel head I have found produces some impressive results when a little masking tape holds the rivet in place (and provides a little friction to stop the mushroom slipping)

A

The fixed set really performs well on curved surfaces, such as the canopy.
After using it for a while now I prefer it to the swivel. I let beginners use the swivel; it is more forgiving but will have a tendency to allow the metal to bend away from the web. This can be noticed as a mark on top to the skin parallel to where the web is.
if i can get the sqeezer on it thats what i use.
I find the pneumatic squeezer does really well up -7 rivet after that all bets are off on clenching. rarely use the hand squeezer.

[lostpilot28]

When I first started my project 2 years ago I really preferred the squeezer. It was fast and easy...but when I was over 1/2 way done with my empennage, I stood back and thought how crappy a lot of my rivets looked. I asked for some opinions (with pictures) here on VAF and found that I had a lot of tipped (or clubbed) shop heads.

I thought it was my hand squeezer, so I ordered a better one. While I waited for it to show up, I drilled out all the bad rivets on my emp. and bucked the new ones. They turned out perfect! I found a new respect for bucking. It's not as fast, but in my case, I get a nice shophead all the time, versus some of the time with the squeezer.

When I got the new squeezer, my rivets were turning out better, but I found that you have to hold the squeezer perfectly for the rivets not to tip. Oddly enough, I've noticed that when I squeeze right handed, they turn out good, left handed not so good.

Never bucked a single rivet with the C-frame, either...only ever used it for dimpling.