Rudi's HID and LED wingtip lights

RudiGreyling · #1 05-07-2008, 12:55 AM

Hi Guys,

Just wanted to show my final wingtip lights:

LED's very bright and only 0.7 AMPS per wingtip

HID Xenon very bright and only 3 AMPS per wingtip

Let me start out to say, they are not perfect, but I am happy with my experiment, and going to keep them. You also will need to tinker with them and change a bit. It is not a buy and fit exercise!

Jeff was so kind as to send me a set of his Luxeon LED kits, Well I changed his kit a bit, cut a hole for the light and moved the LEDs around. http://www.jeffsrv-7a.com/ Thanks Jeff!!

Then I bought the cheap HID FOG lamp set from Harbour Freight http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=95058

Being fog lamps the spot was not what I needed, so I opened them up and changed the internal reflective mirror upside down, to get the reflection on the side I wanted. Below is how I mounted the Fog Lamps.

So what about Radio Frequency Interference? There is, but...read on!
I have not flown but the best test I could do in the garage is take the handheld radio and see what I get.

I turned on the handheld radio and increased the sensativity until I get RX from normal backround noise then I close it just a bit and enoughto get crispy clean channel without any RX showing up. I put the Radio 6 feet from the lights

Then I turned on the LED's and I get RX on the Radio 6 feet away. Turning the sensativity down by only a 1/4 turn and it goes away. The LED's Jeff send me has a current limiting regulator pack on, this current regulater produce some RFI, He told me via email I should get rid of the current regulator and fit a special resistor which I could not get hold of in South Africa yet. Anyone in USA want to send me 2 from Radio Shack please ;-)

I was more concerned over the HID's. They have a ballast driver unit, and the light is produce by an ARC in the gas, and when one power them up you can hear them with the naked ear. Testing the HID the same way with the radio, starting on a very sensative but crisp and clean channel, I found that I had to turn the hand held sensativity down just past 1/4 turn (maybe 1/3 turn) to still get a clean channel again, no RX.

So I compared it to my Strobes that are suppose to be RFI and EMI compliant. The 'compliant' strobes also emit RFI with the radio on the most sensative setting, closing it 1/8 turn cleans up the strobes noise.

So if you want to tinker and willing to turn your radio sensativity slightly down, go for it! Just remember I have not flown yet, but that is what home building is all about, Experimenting. Your milage may vary, but these were my findings so far.

Good luck,
Regards
Rudi

PaigeHoffart · #2 05-07-2008, 01:57 AM

Rudi,

Nicely done. Sorry to play 20 questions, but I'm sure I'm the first of many.

Do you have any photos of the insides of the HID lights?

I'm interested in the reflector mod. Any pictures of the beam pattern?

I've heard HIDs tend to emit RFI during start up, and tend to quiet down after a couple of minutes. Did you do your RFI testing after they were warm?

Finally, from what I've seen the lights look like they use a H3 type base, would it be possible to pull the lamps out of the HID fog lights and install them in a Duckworks reflector?

Thanks,
Paige

RudiGreyling · #3 05-07-2008, 05:15 AM

Hi Paige,
I'll try and answer in line to your quote...

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaigeHoffart

Rudi,

Nicely done. Sorry to play 20 questions, but I'm sure I'm the first of many.

Do you have any photos of the insides of the HID lights?
I'm interested in the reflector mod. Any pictures of the beam pattern?
--> Sorry no picture of what you need, but in essenence the fog lights as Standard make a 180 degree pattern down mounted to the bottom of a car, so if you fit it sideways to a wingtip standard you only get one side lighted up inboard or outboard of your lamp. So it was a simple case of just removing the blocking bar in the reflector to get a better SPOT if you know what I mean.

I've heard HIDs tend to emit RFI during start up, and tend to quiet down after a couple of minutes. Did you do your RFI testing after they were warm?
--> On startup they are a bit more noisy, for 5 seconds or so and then settle down, but I only ran my test for about 2 minutes. I don't know if get even better after 2 minutes, but like I said not much much more than the RFI/EMI compliant strobes.

Finally, from what I've seen the lights look like they use a H3 type base, would it be possible to pull the lamps out of the HID fog lights and install them in a Duckworks reflector?
--> Sorry I haven't seen the Duckworks lights up close and personal so I don't have experience on them.

Thanks,
Paige

My Pleasure,
Regards
Rudi

petehowell · #4 05-07-2008, 05:29 AM

I have a similar setup to Rudi that I have been flying for almost 2 years.

I made LED Navs that I run with big current limiting resistors and have never had any noise on my SL-40. I run them all the time with my APRS tracker.

My Homebrew HID from an audi A4 is fit into a duckworks mount and reflector. It works well and I get noise for the 1st 10 secs on ballast startup, then it is dead quiet.

I have looked at the HF light kit and might put it in for a taxi/rec light setup to replace the M16 halogens I currently have in my tips.

Great work Rudi!!

Brantel · #5 05-07-2008, 07:18 AM

Rudi,

The constant current drivers require a capacitor across the power input wires for noise control. The directions for these units state to apply a 220uF 50V polarized capacitor across the incoming power supply lines.

Did you do this? If not, I would recommend trying this before going to the simple voltage drop/current limiting resistor. The constant current driver will give you the best color and brightness over various operating conditions and will not produce a ton of heat like the resistor will.

The only advantage to the resistor/led combo is that it is a totally passive system that has no possiblility of producing any noise and it is cheaper than the driver and capacitor.

Just make sure you get the polarity right on the cap or you will make a really effective firecracker.

RudiGreyling · #6 05-08-2008, 12:59 AM

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the tip on the Cap I will investigate that a bit.

PS UPDATE: OK Brian is correct, I downloaded the .PDF Datasheet on the LuxDrive Pack, it says a 220uF Cap is required. I'll go buy some and see if the RFI from the LEDS go away. Will Report back in a while. http://www.leddynamics.com/LuxDrive/...-PowerPuck.pdf

Regards,
Rudi

Jeff R · #7 05-08-2008, 07:20 PM

If concerned about noise and you use a large capacitor to solve it (i.e. 220 uF electrolytic), I recommend placing a smaller ceramic capacitor (maybe .1 uF, 100V) in parallel with it. At RF frequencies, most electrolytic capacitors become inductive, which essentially means they stop filtering RF noise and may even serve to boost the noise. The small ceramic capacitor will continue to filter the higher frequency noise well into the RF freqencies we are concerned about.

RudiGreyling · #8 05-18-2008, 12:08 AM

Hi Rvators,

Someone asked me about the beam patterns and strenght of my modified Fog lamp HID's, so I'll post the comparive results below for all to see.

The digital camera was set to manual, and the comparison photos were taken with the exact same camera settings to show the difference:

TEST 1: Distance 4 meters, garage door 2m x 2m
HID:

50W 12 degree Spot lamp:

TEST 2: Distance 1 meter, wooden square blocks +/- 350x350 mm
HID:

50W 12 Degree Spot lamp:

Comparison:
The modified HID fog lamps gives a long Oval beam, with lots of surrounding light, very bright
The 50W 12 Degree Spot, makes a nice round beam, not very bright.

My opinion:
My modified Fog Lamp HID is bright enough to be used as a landing light, AND gives enough surrounding light to serve as a taxi light, so no need to aim 1 wingtip as taxi and one as landing light, meaning you get double the power and utility in both compared to other systems ;-)

Not recommending it to others, but if you want to try you can, I am happy with my experiment.

PS: I have not one further RFI testing since I do not have the CAPS yet, once I do I will comment again.

Regards,
Rudi

Rockyjs · #9 05-18-2008, 09:39 AM

Rudi,
Thanks for the update. The lights look great! Later I may do some experimenting with replacing my 100w Ductworks bulbs.

Brian,
Does the 220 uf capacitor have to be polarized? The manual I have and the reference Rudi has in his post shows a normal capacitor. Thanks

Brantel · #10 05-18-2008, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockyjs

Brian,
Does the 220 uf capacitor have to be polarized? The manual I have and the reference Rudi has in his post shows a normal capacitor. Thanks

Either will work, the non polarized will likely be larger. That symbol in that PDF is a symbol for a polarized cap just without the + symbol which some people use and some do not. If you use a polarized, just make sure to get the polarity correct or it will explode after a few minutes of on time.