Densely Populated Areas

[Gary 40274]

I got my Phase I operating limitations and like all those folks before me I am restricted from flying over Densely poplulated areas and congested airways. To my knowledge the FAA has never put a definition on densely populated areas. What think ye, how do we know what one is precisely.

Gary

[Mel]

Back in the early ultra-light days we petitioned the FAA for a definition. The best they could come up with at Oshkosh was, "If you fly over a thousand people and no one complains, it was not congested. If you fly over 3 people and 1 complains, it was congested."

[L.Adamson]

Originally Posted by Gary 40274

I got my Phase I operating limitations and like all those folks before me I am restricted from flying over Densely poplulated areas and congested airways. To my knowledge the FAA has never put a definition on densely populated areas. What think ye, how do we know what one is precisely.

Gary

At our last EAA chapter meeting, we had a DAR talking about this. As I remember, the wording has been recently changed "with" minimum altitude restrictions over densely populated areas, set at 2000' agl. ----- I believe.

L.Adamson

[Mel]

Originally Posted by L.Adamson

At our last EAA chapter meeting, we had a DAR talking about this. As I remember, the wording has been recently changed "with" minimum altitude restrictions over densely populated areas, set at 2000' agl. ----- I believe.

L.Adamson

Actually, the latest changes the definition to "...unless directed by Air Traffic Control or sufficient altitude is maintained to effect a safe emergency landing in the event of a power unit failure, without hazard to persons or property on the surface."

[az_gila]

The FAA did let this one slip out........ came from an ultralight web site... gil A

"General Aviation Operations Inspector's Handbook, Order 8700.1".

The congested nature of an area is defined by what exists on the surface, not the size of the area. While the presence of the nonparticipating public is the most important determination of congested, the area may also be congested with structures or objects. An area considered congested for airplane operations could be equally congested for helicopters. If an airplane flying over a congested area at less than 1,000 feet above ground level (AGL) is in violation of 14 CFR ? 91.119(b), the area may also be a congested area for a helicopter conducting external load operations. However, the most important word in this concept is 'over.' Helicopters can operate over relatively small uncongested areas because of their maneuvering
abilities.

(b) Densely Populated Area. Title 14 CFR ?? 91.313 and 133.45(d) use the term "densely populated" area. Those areas of a city, town, or settlement that contain a large number of occupied homes, factories, stores, schools, and other structures are considered densely populated. Additionally, a densely populated area may not contain any buildings but could consist of a large gathering of persons on a beach, at an airshow, at a ball game, or at a fairground. NOTE: While the presence of the nonparticipating public is the most important determination of congested, this definition also applies to structures, buildings and personal property. The congested nature of an area is defined by what exists on the surface, not the size of the area.

[Gary 40274]

OK, That doesn't leave much flying room in the eastern 1/3 of the US.

Gary

[Bob Brown]

There is an interesting article by John Yodice, an aviation attorney in the most recent AOPA magazine. His conclusions are not very rosy...

[robertahegy]

I was told by my flight instructor that densely populated areas were shaded yellow on sectional charts. I could not find this in writing, but it seems to make sense.

Roberta

[RVAddict]

Originally Posted by robertahegy

I was told by my flight instructor that densely populated areas were shaded yellow on sectional charts. I could not find this in writing, but it seems to make sense.

Roberta

I will double check with him to make sure, but if I'm not mistaken, mine told me that those yellow areas were what the city's lights look like from above at night.

I like your definition too, Roberta, maybe both are correct...

Josh

[captainron]

Originally Posted by Gary 40274

OK, That doesn't leave much flying room in the eastern 1/3 of the US.

Gary

It leaves lots of room, if you are operating at proper altitudes. And since altitude is your very good friend, should be no problem.