K1100 Nut Plate how to?

[RVG8tor]

From what I have read there is no step in the elevator instructions that says install K1100 nut plates or how to accomplish this task, just a note on the DWG. Just to be sure I have figured this out I want to run it by the forum. I have read what there is in the forum.

I will use the dimple method since I have the reduced size die. I have read about the NAS rivet method.

My thought is to install the nut plates before I rivet the trim reinforcing plate onto the skin. Can anyone point out any problems with doing it this way?

To install the nut plates I dimple the reinforecing plate for the nut plate rivets and also dimple the nut plate rivet holes. There is no reason to drill out the nut plate holes since they are already larger than the -3 rivets. I will also have to dimple with #6 dies the hole the tapered screw goes into.

So do I have the install procedure for the K1100 nut plate correct? Is there any other tips you might have for me?

Thanks for any help.

[jmartinez443]

I didn't dimple the nutplate rivet holes. In my opinion the nutplate can "float" (ie, does not have to sit flush with the skin) since the screws will be long enough screw in securely.

[az_gila]

Originally Posted by jmartinez443

I didn't dimple the nutplate rivet holes. In my opinion the nutplate can "float" (ie, does not have to sit flush with the skin) since the screws will be long enough screw in securely.

This doesn't sound like a good technique.

Think of the nutplate as a plain old nut... you would never mount a nut with an indeterminate space between the nut and the surface it was bearing against.

As the bolt (or whatever) is being screwed into the nutplate, the eventual torque will be affected by this gap, and the force needed to pull the nutplate down as the gap is closed.

If the gap is left, the vibration effects on the joint will be somewhat unknown since the bolt is only held in place by two -3 rivets teetering on a dimple...

Dimple the surface and the nutplate, or countersink the material, but ensure all mechnical parts are in contact with each other...

gil A

[rv9av8tr]

I agree with Gil. I did the same. You have to grind a small bevel section off the FM die side face, otherwise it hits the threaded shank of the plate nut and mangles the plate nut when you squeeze it.

[az_gila]

Originally Posted by rv9av8tr

I agree with Gil. I did the same. You have to grind a small bevel section off the FM die side face, otherwise it hits the threaded shank of the plate nut and mangles the plate nut when you squeeze it.

... or you could buy a reduced diameter female die... like this one from Avery...



http://www.averytools.com/pc-578-17-...mple-dies.aspx

Other tight spots usually turn up too later in the building process....

gil A

[Rick6a]

Originally Posted by RVG8tor

.....From what I have read there is no step in the elevator instructions that says install K1100 nut plates or how to accomplish this task, just a note on the DWG. Thanks for any help.

Mike,

Let me add my 2 cents here: I have never encountered any circumstance in which dimpling nutplates is a desirable option. I know Van's describes the technique but it sure seems "the long way around the barn" to me.

Referencing your post and as the detail photograph illustrates....I almost always attach nutplates using NAS1097 rivets. This is common and standard practice in the production world and why Van's does not call out their use in RV construction is beyond me.

[Rivethead]

In the areas that require a nut plate riveted on dimpled skins or the like I have fashioned spacers that are a fuzz larger than the nut plates foot print out of .032 material. By doing that I can machine counter sink the spacer for the dimpled skins and don't have to do anything to the nut plates. It's more work for sure and it really a helps to have nut plate jigs for drilling the spacers but in the end the nut plates are unquestionably secure rather than wonky. I wouldn't leave space between the nut plate and skin or any other surface on a bet.

[az_gila]

I'm with Rick on this one... countersink for rivets.... use standard size rivets for 0.040 and above, and the NAS1097 reduced head rivets for anything thinner.

Dimpling is OK (if both sides are dimpled......) - but the reduced head rivets and countersinking is actually easier and less work IMHO.

I was really answering the initial poster who preferred dimpling.

Use the NAS1097 rivets....

gil A

[AntiGravity]

Originally Posted by jmartinez443

I didn't dimple the nutplate rivet holes. In my opinion the nutplate can "float" (ie, does not have to sit flush with the skin) since the screws will be long enough screw in securely.

Having got my tail mounted recently, I also noticed I didn't dimple the nutplates, nor did I dimple the skin for the K1100 nutplates. When the elevtaor next comes off I'll be re-doing both of those tasks; I don't think the nutplate should float around like that; doesn't look right if nothing else...

[N916K]

Why go to all this trouble? Dimple the skin, put a slight countersink on the nutplate to center it and use a normal rivet. Shouldn't be more than a few minutes of total build time. Van's didn't supply those fancy rivets, so you don't need them. It's just a tractor made of aluminum, build on.