Build Now or Build Later AKA is a Van's too much plane?

[Rabidsnipe]

I'm currently taking flight training at Guthrie-Edmond Regional Airport; I'd also like to build an airplane. So two questions I propose to you.

#1 As I'm sure all of you can understand, I'm of course chomping at the bit to get started with building. I don't want to waste any precious time waiting around to start building. Further, I can't fly all the time. There are huge chunks of my time that are spent wasted, not flying but not building. But I'm torn as to whether I should complete my PPL before I start building. The building funds will probably come from the same bucket as the flying funds so doing them at the same time will probably just draw both of them out. Should I finish my PPL training before I start building? Or should I just lay that first $1200 down and start building and continue to take lessons, building while I'm not flying?

#2 This leads into my next question. I imagine that even if I finish my PPL before I start building that chances are, I'll be a low time pilot by the time I'm done (<100 hours). Can a low time pilot safely transition to an RV-7A or 9A? I imagine the answer is yes with enough transition training, but I wanted to hear it from you guys. Has anyone ever finished their PPL training in a Van's (obviously you'd have to have someone else fly off your 40 hours for you, so maybe that would be dumb)?

Just some questions from someone who is just dying to start building.


-Chase

[dav1111]

Dear Chase:

The biggest regret I have in life is not starting a build project 25-39 years ago.

For almost thirty years I bought and flew 5 different certified airplanes. If I had started building a two place RV back when Van's first started selling his kits I would have been a really happy camper a lot sooner. It wasn't until the year 2000 that I was introduced into the world of RV building. Now look at me.

[N131RV]

Having flown a few different birds, I'd relate that in my experience, the A model RVs are very easy to fly.

Bear in mind, equipment and horsepower vary greatly from plane to plane. There are 200+ HP 6's (not for the faint of heart) and 160 hp 7's (pretty docile).

A low time pilot will find a 9A dead easy to fly. 7A probably just as easy. 6A is a bit more sensitive on the controls, but still pretty easy.

My bird was (and will be again) a real screamer in cruise, but dead simple to land.

YMMV, but the 6A,7A,9A and 10 models are very easy to fly (and the non A models are not all that difficult either).

[JHines]

Originally Posted by Rabidsnipe

I'm currently taking flight training at Guthrie-Edmond Regional Airport; I'd also like to build an airplane. So two questions I propose to you. <SNIP>

The building funds will probably come from the same bucket as the flying funds so doing them at the same time will probably just draw both of them out. Should I finish my PPL training before I start building? Or should I just lay that first $1200 down and start building and continue to take lessons, building while I'm not flying?

I vote PPL first, for two reasons:

(1) build/train at the same time will likely waste your resources.

To get your PPL you need the minimum 40 hours PLUS enough compentency to pass the checkride. Realistically you need to fly 2-3 times per week in the period just before your checkride.

If you focus exclusively on doing all your homework, airwork, etc. and fly intensely, you can easily get the PPL knocked out in a relatively low number of hours (yes, 40 is possible) and a short amount of calendar time.

On the other hand, I have seen/heard of a lot of folks not training this intensely, and as a result, they end up needing 60-100 hours to get the PPL. At today's rental rates, that could easily be $5000 of wasted building money.

After the PPL, if you build while not flying, you will get rusty, BUT even though you will need BFRs, "knock the rust off" hours, and RV transition training, it will always amount to less time and money that what is required to get the certificate initially.

You could also build the whole thing first and then do your complete PPL, but that brings up another reason.

(2) make sure you can be a pilot. While unlikely, there are some people that for whatever reason, can't achieve a PPL (medical, mental blocks on certain skills, etc.). If you get your PPL now, you will have cleared that hurdle before you invest a large amount of money in a kit.

[TSwezey]

I started building before I even started my PPL training. Start building now! Don't wait! I have only flown in an -8 and a -10. If you can fly a 172 or a Grumman Tiger you can fly a -10 with some training. I would imagine you could easily transition to a -7a or a -9a.

[LettersFromFlyoverCountry]

Any plane you're not used to is "too much plane." I haven't flown for two years and a couple of weeks ago I went up with a CFI. Let's just say it was embarrassing. What was I flying? A Warrior.

If you respect the vehicle and dedicate yourself to the training required to become proficient AND make sure you stay proficient, there is no reason why an RV should be beyond you.

The trick, also, is to keep training (flying) while you're building. REntal out my way -- Minn. -- right now with a CFI and fuel surcharges and the Metropolitan Airports Commission "fee" (which is a gift to Northwest Airlines) makes the hourly cost about $225. Ouch.

[flyingchuck]

This is more a question than a statement of fact. Is it possible to insure an RV with such low time?

Yesterday I talked with the fine folks at NationAir Insurance. I am in the VERY early process of building an RV10.... but maybe an -8... (that's a different story)... so I was doing some research on costs and minimums for insurance for the two models.

It sounds like a pilot needs at least 250 hours total time to be insured by AIG. For a tail-wheel RV8, you need 25 hours of tail-wheel time as well. For the RV10, they like 50 hours of high performance time along with an IFR rating.

Can anyone shed some light on the insurance side of things?

I say go for the the PPL now for sure and get it done. Not sure about the insurance minimums, but it would be good to be able to fly a little every month or so during the build process to keep current and build hours without having to pay an instructor. I say save the $ and then bang out the PPL 3-4 days a week until finished. I finished my PPL in 3 months at 40.4 hours doing it that way. Way cheaper than stringing it out over many months and lots of instructor hours.

I am having similar pains with the whole "waiting" thing. I want to start building NOW, but life just won't allow that atm. Buying our first house this year and having a decent sized down payment is top priority right now which really limits the $$$. So, I have to be content with lurking the boards, flying enough to keep the rust off (about an hour a month), researching all aspects of the build process, deciding on tools, planning my panel, getting my name on the hideously long hanger waiting list, learning about web design and HTML, etc.

You will make it!

[orchidman]

Originally Posted by Rabidsnipe

I'm currently taking flight training at Guthrie-Edmond Regional Airport; I'd also like to build an airplane. So two questions I propose to you.
-Chase

You are in a prefect location. Right on the field Gale Braden is building an RV-9A and he is the EAA Chapter 24 Tech Councilor. He should be an excellent source for answers about building a 7 or a 9 and you could take a look at a 9 in progress.

Go for it, but put the flying and getting/keeping the flying proficiency should be at a higher priority for the $$$ then the plane. You will never build until you start and Gale should be able to assist you in your homework as to which model will be best for your experience and what you intend on using it for.

[Harvey L. Sorensen]

Get your PPL first. Many students when starting to learn to fly are all excited of course. Before they get their PPL they quit because ( insert reason here ). Once you get your PPL you will know if you want to keep flying. Then buy your kit, start poundings rivets and rent a 150 to knock around the sky with, or even buy one as most likely it won't cost you much if anything to own when you sell it if you keep it in good condition. It don't have to be prety or even low time just airworthy and safe. You won't put many hours on it and it will be easy to sell if it is cheep. It is easer to find someone with $20,000 to spend on a starter plane than someone with $35-$40,000. Just something to keep curent and have fun. And just think what a blast you will have when you get out of your 150 and into your brand new RV-?

Good luck and keep your air speed up

[OKAV8r]

It is well documented, and I can attest from 30 years recommending applicants for their PPL, flying 2-3 times per week is optimal for most people. Study hard, fly often, and get the check ride out of the way. Then get a demo flight in an RV. Then build. When the time comes, get back in the air in whatever make/model you trained in to get back up to speed, THEN move up to the RV...