IFR without GPS

[prkaye]

Alfio pointed-out to me something I did not know. The cost of updating the database for an IFR GPS unit like the Garmin 430 is something like 500 bucks a year. This got me thinking - do I really need an IFR GPS.
In the old days, an IFR plane would could have something like an SL-30, and an ADF for redundancy (we have more strict rules about redundancy of equipment here in Canada, including a requirement or redundant displays for navigation equipment). So I was thinking, I could save some money by doing an old-school IFR setup, and either have no GPS, or a VFR GPS to supplement the IFR equipment (VOR/ILS/ADF). Have any of you guys considered going this route, for cost-savings reasons?

[Norman CYYJ]

What redundancy rules are you referring to Phil.

[L.Adamson]

You can certainly go with the VFR GPS (portable) to supplement the "old school" IFR. And these days, with GPS providing terrain and obstacle warnings as an added bonus especially in IMC ---------------- it's almost nuts to go without, considering the relatively low cost.

I have this thing about keeping track of flight into terrain accidents; since we seem to average at least three a year around here. A good moving map GPS with terrain warning functions could have prevented many of them. In other words, it's extremely valuable technology, that old school just never had!

L.Adamson --- Garmin 296 portable

[Ironflight]

I used to fly IFR in my Yankee for years with "old school" stuff. Then I got a VFR GPS, and it really helped my situational awareness - but legally, I was still VOR/ADF/ILS. My -8 is the first plane I've owned with an IFR GPS, and I really like the capability. The panel we just finished for Louise's -6 has no IFR GPS - but there is a 396 for "situational Awareness" - and we'll be able to file IFR under some circumstances with the equipment we have.

The potential limitation to going without an IFR GPS is how many non-GPS approaches are or will be available, and while you can easily determine the answer to the first question, the second (what WILL be) is a matter of fortune telling. And i recognize that Canada may very well have a different philosophy on this than the US. NDB approaches sure seem to be going away here (I mus admit, I haven't paid attention, as I no longer have an ADF).

Although the Valkyrie and I are IFR certified and always current, the truth is that in the past year of flying, over 300 hours with trips all over the country, I really have had to file and fly in IMC just a coupe of times, so your concern about database costs is understandable. I choose to keep our capability ready, just in case - but the answer for others might be to save that money for an extra night in a hotel room somewhere, waiting for better weather.

Paul

[Kevin Horton]

Phil - Another option - Practically speaking, the IFR GPS is most useful for enroute navigation, as it allows you to go direct. Most airports that have a GPS approach also have an approach based on conventional navaids. So, you could simply not keep the GNS 430 database up to date. You could still use it for enroute navigation (you should check coordinates of any points in your flight plan against current pubs if the database is out of date), but you couldn't use it for terminal or approach procedures (see Aeronautical Information Circular 27/05 Instrument Flight Rules Operations Using Global Navigation Satellite System).

[David-aviator]

I came up through the old school and can not imagine going without GPS today, it is so COOL compared to VOR, DME, ADF or I Follow Roads. I still carry charts but GPS gets me where I want to go.

My darn transponder died back in November and has been in a shop since November 29th. Long story short, its a Becker and parts had to be ordered from Germany and then shop test equipment was due calibration which takes 4-5 weeks. Why they don't have more than one piece of test equipment blows my mind.

Anyway, today I wanted to fly into a Class D airport under Class B airspace to meet some other geezers for lunch and decided to ask for a waiver. The neat thing about GPS is I flew right along a 30 mile mode C arc while negotiating with approach control. It took about one minute to get an all day pass from the lady once she had a break from vectoring part 121 guys to the local big airport - just stay out of my Class B airspace - yes mam, thank you very much.

Maybe think about upgrading the GPS once or twice a year and be current once or twice a year, but I would miss not having it at all. I upgrade mine during the annual condition inspection for $35 and it seems most adequate at least for VFR.

[Noah]

If this is truly the cost ($500) for an annual subscription for a 430W then I think many people would think twice. Can anybody confirm this price or supply a link to pricing?

Highest Regards,

[Ironflight]

I think my 430 subscription was about $320 last time.

[John Clark]

Paul beat me to it, the full US (48 state) coverage is about $320. Actually it is a good deal, the same coverage in printed manuals is $1024 a year and a whole lot heavier.

Most ofthe larger pilot supply shops are Jeppesen dealers and have listings for less than full USA coverage.

Here is the URL for Garmin's pricing:
http://shop.garmin.com/aviation/databases/options.asp

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA

[Norman CYYJ]

When I was working before I retired Becker was the hardest avionics equipment to get parts or service for. The time delays were horrible. The manuals that they would sell you never had the updates or revisions.