WINDY!! What are your limitations?

[AlexPeterson]

Originally Posted by Kevin Horton

Actually, it is a bit worse than that. It is inverse sin(xwind/TAS), as the path through the air is not aligned with the runway, but instead it is along the hypotenuse of the wind triangle. So, if we have a 30 kt direct crosswind, with a 55 kt TAS, the crab angle is about 33 degrees.

Kevin, you are quite right! Actually, last night, after I posted it, I thought something wasn't quite right but forgot to back and look. Thanks. Corrected:


[IMG][/IMG]

[the_other_dougreeves]

I may have expended my limits today. I launched from OUN for ADS with the winds forecast to be dieing down but ADS was reporting 13G22 but minimal crosswind when I left. I needed to get home by Civil twilight (darn sport pilot limitations! My PP checkride is in Feb) and figured that if ADS was too windy, I could land at GLE where the winds were lighter (front had passed there earlier).

On final, tower called the winds 9G18. I decided to give it a go and landed fine between the gusts. If I couldn't get it down, my plan was to maybe try again then divert to GLE. Go-arounds are easy on the CT with the low stall speed (39), light weight (1300) and lots of power (13 lb/hr).

Fortunately it all worked out - or maybe I'm just getting better with the airplane.

TODR

[Shockwave]

I did my PP checkride with the max crosswind allowed in a Piper Warrior. (19mph I believe) Only caught 1 bad gust, but since I had to do a go-around anyways, we took that one. I didn't think about it then, but 2 notches of flaps instead of 3 probably would have helped a bit too.

Also got my lesson in flying the plane until it stops moving, not just when the wheels are on the ground. The runway sort of had a joggle bend in it. I landed, then the ground starts dropping away, and with all of that crosswind I started skidding sideways until I got my ailerons rolled in. While my instructor had drilled it into me, when you just don't see an effect its difficult to understand the need to do it. And that was just getting to the examiner!

[Mustang12]

It all depends on the A/C and other conditions. Average is approx 20-25 kts

[Sticky1]

Personal Limits ...hummmm

Try landing in Marathon Fla.

Back in the 90's.......almost 90* to the runway, H e l l of a crab

Back in the 80's I saw my instructor fly a 150 backwards.....Go figure!!

[cguarino]

Originally Posted by the_other_dougreeves

Rules of thumb:

30 deg crosswind = 1/2 of wind
45 deg crosswind = sqrt(2) / 2 = ~ 70% of wind
60 deg crosswind = almost the full wind

Doug

I've always taught a very similar ROT. It is based on the sine of the angle of the wind off the runway. The headwind/tail wind component can also be figured out based on the cosine of the angle. Here are my ROTs.

15 degrees off the nose = (.25 x wind) cross and almost all headwind
30 degrees off the nose = (.5 x wind) cross and (.9 x wind) headwind
45 degrees off the nose = (.7 x wind) cross and (.7 x wind) headwind
60 degrees off the nose = (.9 x wind) cross and (.5 x wind) headwind

Example: 20 kts 60 degrees off the nose gives you about 18 kts of cross and 10 knots of headwind. The calculated numbers are 17.31 cross and 10 on the noggin. Close enough for government work.

I typically blow off the 15 degree number and just remember .5, .7 and .9 for crosswind and then just reverse them for headwind. Clear as mud?

Originally Posted by cawmd82

The last couple of weeks In the DFW area have seen all kinds of high and gusty winds including some relatively odd angles. Things here are usually pretty much NW-SE, one or the other. Today at one point ADS had 270/22 g30.

To the point....What are some of your personal comfort levels on winds for take offs and landings, with an emphasis on crosswinds?

Before the flames....Obviously one's experience will determine what is safe for that individual only--I am looking to get some dialogue on what various people find acceptable for themselves.

I concur with what others have said -- the gusts (both in direction and speed) are much more limiting than a steady state wind with no obstructions nearby.

I fly off a 2000ft runway that's 40ft wide. It has a 300ft hill less than a mile off one end of the runway and a 1000ft hill a mile to one side of the runway. The other end of the runway sports some tall power lines and a bunch of water. The airport is 10 miles from the Pacific ocean (which generates a lot of wind) on the lee side of the Pacific Coast range. Here's what it looks like:





Needless to say, the winds here are never predictable. The airport is surrounded by 270 degress of obstructions, and the wind usually blows from somewhere in that 270 degrees, varying by 30-40 degrees in the gusts.

I have about 700 hours of tailwheel time and 50 hours in my RV. There are a lot of days that I don't go flying. On the days that I do, my worst landings are almost always back at the home drome.

[captainron]

Originally Posted by cawmd82

The last couple of weeks In the DFW area have seen all kinds of high and gusty winds including some relatively odd angles. Things here are usually pretty much NW-SE, one or the other. Today at one point ADS had 270/22 g30.

Want to see a really odd angle? Taxi onto RWY 33 and stay to the right side of the runway. Point the nose of the plane to a heading of around 290, put in a little left aileron, then take-off!

[n5lp]

I landed today in front of a turbine Air Tractor. The wind was reported 25 gusting to 33 knots as I landed. The Air Tractor was right behind me so I was looking for him to taxi in after I shut down. But he didn't and didn't.

Finally he appeared taxiing slowly crosswind but when he tried to swing around downwind to park, he couldn't. After a few tries two guys came out and held on to a wing tip, he still couldn't turn around. Then another guy came out. With three big guys holding back a wingtip he got it swung around, even not if exactly where he wanted to.

I'm guessing that that airplane doesn't have tailwheel steering, and with the big vertical tail he just wasn't willing to use the power and braking that would be necessary to swing that tail through the wind.

I didn't even have to use the brakes, and I'm pretty sure an A model would have had no problem, although it would have had to use lots of brake.

Maybe they figure ag planes aren't normally going to have to operate in windy conditions?

Pierre; poor operating technique or airplane design limitation?

[jdmunzell]

I'm not Pierre, but just because it's a turbine air tractor doesn't necessarily mean that everything works as it should.

Working airplanes such as those might just not have the best brake systems or even other systems. The airplanes are in the air a lot and more prone to mechanical issues. I've never flown Ag but I did fly banner planes for a few summers way back when. Our airplanes flew daily for probably 8 hours or so, with lots of ups and downs. Maintenance issues were always an issue...particularily brakes. I've flown Stearmans and Cubs that had less than perfect brakes, and quite often required doing a 270 in order to go in the direction I wanted to go.

I used to own a Citabria that while it was a blast to fly, was a pain in the patoosh to taxi around in with a stiff crosswind. I suppose some airplanes simply have worse weathervaning tendencies than others.

So it really does boil down to personal limits, equipment types, tailwheel vs. nosewheel, airport and runway conditions, obstructions upwind of the touchdown area, gust factor, etc... I find anymore that it's just not fun to go up and get beat up in the air when it's that windy, so I usually take a pass and wait for a smoother day.