Why I picked Subaru.

[airguy]

Agreed - if I was ultimately worried about resale value, I would be out there right now trying to find the new owner of my airplane and asking them how they would like me to build it and instrument it for them.

I'm not building it for them - I'm building it for me. I'll fly the heck out of it, it will make me happy and life will be good, and I will be content with whatever check I happen to get if I should decide to do something else and sell the plane. Circumstances change and you can never predict where you're going to be 10 years down the road - so I'm living in the here and now, and that means building the airplane like it's not ever going to belong to anyone else.

[rv6ejguy]

Originally Posted by airguy

Agreed - if I was ultimately worried about resale value, I would be out there right now trying to find the new owner of my airplane and asking them how they would like me to build it and instrument it for them.

I'm not building it for them - I'm building it for me. I'll fly the heck out of it, it will make me happy and life will be good, and I will be content with whatever check I happen to get if I should decide to do something else and sell the plane. Circumstances change and you can never predict where you're going to be 10 years down the road - so I'm living in the here and now, and that means building the airplane like it's not ever going to belong to anyone else.

I'm with Greg on this one. It seems like this is a big issue for the Lycoming RV guys. I sink 2000 hours of my life building one of these planes for me not for someone else. While the time may come where I might have to give one or both up, I'll be patient to find the right buyer and hopefully recover some money. In the meantime I'm going to enjoy flying them. Neither RV even has nav lights!

I didn't buy a BMW or a new hangar to make money, I bought them to help enjoy life- which is half over at this point for me. You only live once. Better enjoy it while you can.

[Yukon]

Say it ain't true David! What will we have to argue about if you go Lycoming?

[Ted RV8]

Ross,

Just because I choose to fly behind a Lycoming doesn't mean I feel I'm immune to harm or that the Lycoming is as Dj said the "Golden Bullet" (not really sure what that means).

Nor does it change the fact that we are participating in an inherently dangerous activity. The other factors you point out are regardless of engine choice.

When I stated are you willing to extend that to your family I meant them having to deal with the ramifications of losing you.

Flying is risky yet we want to do it. Just went to a safety seminar last night and it gave the statistic of flying is just as risky as riding a motorcycle. Every time we get in an airplane we are betting our life on that airplane and it's components. As builders we get to choose those components.

I choose to do it behind a Lycoming. It is designed and built for that application alone. The Subaru was designed and built as a ground transportation powerplant only. Can it be adapted for airplane use, yes. Is it an excellent design engine, yes. Does Subaru endorse it for an airplane application, I doubt it.

I'm not trying to attack you for your choices as they are yours to make. I'm not trying to put down those of you who elect to use alternative powerplants. Just pointing out that everything we do building our airplanes we are betting our lives on.

Remember we are all giving opinions here, you have yours based on your experience, I have mine. You stated you're a profesional engine builder, if you wouldn't mind please elaborate. What kinds? What applications? If you feel uncomfortable with that on the board please PM me.

ted

[flytoboat]

Originally Posted by Geico266

Baffling? Why would you find it baffling that people build an airplane with resale value in mind? If you don't sell it, your family will. The facts are the plane WILL be sold. Building it without resale value in mind is baffling to me. JMHO.

First, I haven't made a decision on what engine I'll use and have 3 or so years before I do. I am looking at alternatives.
Second, I too, find it baffling why other folks care how I spend my money. And I'm not too concerned about what my family can sell my airplane for when I'm gone. Obiously if I was concerned about leaving an inheritance, I wouldn't be building an airplane.
And lastly, I don't understand why you declare "the plane WILL be sold" It seams most alternative engine naysayers believe it will end up in a smoking hole!

[Geico266]

Originally Posted by flytoboat

And lastly, I don't understand why you declare "the plane WILL be sold" It seams most alternative engine naysayers believe it will end up in a smoking hole!

I said it before, and I'll say it again; "One way or another it will be sold." Maybe as scrap, but it WILL be sold.

I certainly hope no one every makes a "smokin hole" again, unless they are in a parachute. We have lost too many good pilots since I have started flying, and I don't want anyone to get hurt. Maybe it's a generational thing. I think (JMHO) it is very short sighted not to consider resale when you are spending this kind of money on an airplane. This is a major purchase for most builders. If you want to buy a Subbie knock yourself out. From what I've seen up close they are okay. You don't need my blessing, go for it. It is JMHO that resale should be a consideration for any major durable good purchase. Subbie away!

Rotax, (A division of Bombardier, multi-billion $$ company) just SB'ed a bunch of gear boxes which grounded the old ones, EGG is on GEN3 gearbox (with precious few running hours in the field) which grounded Gen1's & Gen2's. The Chevy conversion guys have always had reduction problems, ect., ect., ect.

Does anyone else see a pattern here?

[N62XS]

Originally Posted by flytoboat

...Second, I too, find it baffling why other folks care how I spend my money. And I'm not too concerned about what my family can sell my airplane for when I'm gone.

Because we have a responsibility to the people we fly over to insure that car parts and carplanes don't fall on their heads! Alternative engines are called Continental and Franklin. Car engines are extreme on the experimental scale.

Flying is not a right and with the attitude that any of us can endanger others because we choose to experiment with something that is IMHO, more expensive, unsafe and less reliable than what Vans recommends only adds to the public perception that the aviation community is ARROGANT!

[AllanC]

Ted,

And I hope that Ross doesn't mind me answering very briefly to your post, but, to be frank, I am getting weary of the Sube naysayers and aggressive (to me, but I'm a sensitive guy ) posts by certain traditional engine owners, who have never even in some cases even bothered to look at alternative engines. If you want to know about Ross and his experience with alternative engines, may I respectfully suggest that you go to his website, and review the extensive work he has being doing with Subaru installations. Ross has tremendous experience in his field, and his research in alternative engines is a great plus for the experimental aircraft community. We are fortunate he continues to post.

Similarly with the unnamed geico266, whoever you are. Please do not persist in stating that resale value is a 'must' consideration and that those who don't are shortsighted. We are all adults and make our own decisions, so please desist with the condemnations. I see that geico266 seems to be in the business of buying and selling experimental aircraft, so there may be other reasons behind those unfortunate posts.

Allan

[mikegraycmg]

We are building experimental aircraft. People are entitled to, and I hope they do, experiment. It is only by pushing the envelope that you move forward. I applaud the folks that try new things, and I think that engine development is one of those things that the aviation community sorely needs. I heard some of these same kind of negative arguments about glass panels a few years back.

The subaru is a nice engine, and, as I understand it, was originally developed as a helicopter engine (don't remember where I heard that). It's going to have some weaknesses based upon the engineering choices in its design, just like a Lycoming will and does.

That said, I'm not going to get a subaru. It's just too heavy for me. If it weighed 100 pounds lighter, then I probably would.

[Mike S]

Originally Posted by AllanC

Similarly with the unnamed geico266, whoever you are.
Allan

You can click on anyones login name, and a drop down menu will give you a look at the profile.

His name is there, Larry Geiger, as is other info.