Just MT Propeller

[RVjim]

Originally Posted by hydroguy2

how about some real performance numbers from the 2 blade aluminum MT on a IO-360 RV-7?

I don't have any. I also don't have a RV-7, or an IO-360. Sorry.
I do have a MTV-15-B/183-402 (aluminum 2 blade) MT Propeller that you could borrow the next time you're at Oxnard, California. Just let me know when, so I can take it off of my O-360 RV-6A.

I should mention that MT Propeller now recommends the MTV-15-B/183-402 propeller for the 180 hp (I)O-360 engine only. With dual mags, or LASAR electronic ignition only.

Regards,
Jim

[hydroguy2]

I'll be in Hemet next month. What time should I come by? just kidding my -7 doesn't even have a motor yet.

Have you done any testing or gotten any numbers on your 6A. I know of a couple of guys(-7a , -8a) who say their Aluminum MT 2blades are faster than the BA it replaced, but I didn't get their numbers.

[RVjim]

Originally Posted by Kahuna

Jim,
With a thread title of "Just MT", do you not want any discussion comparisons of the MT to other manufacturers? Seems most folks who are interested in MT discussions are interested in the discussions as they pertain to the alternatives. Without comparitive discussions for baselines, how do we discuss any attributes?

Best,

Just a discussion on the MT Propellers I know seemed like a big enough challenge to me. Aluminum blade? "Natural Composite" blade?
What characteristics are important in determining which is really better?

On the MTV-15-B/183-402 (72" dia. aluminum 2 blade) MT Propeller, if you damage the blade tips, they can be trimmed off too as little as a 68" diameter.
On the MTV-12-B/183-59b (72" dia. "Natural Composite" 3 blade) MT Porpeller, if you damage 4 7/8" of the blade tips (62 1/4" dia.), the blades can be overhauled to their original 72" diameter.

Regards,
Jim Ayers

[RVjim]

Originally Posted by Russ McCutcheon

Hi Jim,

I have an MTV-15-B/183-33 bolted to a Lycoming angle valve A1A 200HP. I have 410 hours on it in only 18 months sense its last O/H, the O/H was done at MT USA in Florida, they did a great job I think but it took about 4 or 5 months. The prop had been badly neglected by its previous owner and required a hole new hub assembly and new custom blade ferrels to accommodate mounting my old blades to the new hub. I also wanted new erosion strips (metal leading edges) but they neglected to do this and just filled the pit marks which have now eroded out again from flying in the rain, not to mention a new ding caused by me after the O/H.

I like what I got from MT USA but I am looking for someone closer for next time and someone that will have my prop for weeks not months, You seem to have a passion for MT props so you are in the running along with maybe American Propeller.

So are you the full meal deal MT prop shop? Authorized to do any and all service including the blade lag bolts if necessary, erosion strips and refinishing?

Hear is what I want next time.

1. standard hub O/H
2. new erosion strips
3. blade re finish
4. And I want this done without the ferrels being removed if at all possible, this is expensive and they just put them on there last time.

So can this be done and if it?s straight forward what would the cost be? And if we set it up well in advance can you have the parts so you can do the work in short order?

So far getting this prop serviced correctly and in a timely fashion at the same time has proven impossible!!!! I love this prop but I want some good service!!!!

Don?t PM me just answer hear so everyone can hear what you offer at your shop, everyone with an MT will be interested in your answers.

Russ

Hi Russ,

I get the feeling you have understated the lack of care by the previous owner. I say this, because the repair you describe seems extreme.

The four points you make for overhaul seem very reasonable to do, and is typical for the overhauled propellers I have already completed.

I have an agreement with MT Propeller in Germany to use the USA repair facility they own, MT Propeller USA, for all of the component part overhaul. I say this, because this is the very place you indicated you didn't want to use.
I have developed a very good working relationship with MT Propeller USA, and they have aways provided excellent workmanship with all of my overhauled parts, and provided them in a timely manner.

I had a damaged 3 blade Rocket propeller, MTV-9-B-C/C198-52, returned for overhaul recently. This is a 78" diameter 3 blade MT Propeller with counterweighted blades (the -C/C designation). It came in after 4 years, instead of 6 years. It also came in with only a 72" diameter.
The hub was sent to MT Propeller USA in Florida. The blades were sent to MT Propeller in Germany. By the time the customer had gotten the teardown inspection on the engine completed and the engine installed, he had his overhauled 78" diameter 3 blade propeller back.

I don't see a problem with overhaul time. Worst case, I have a couple propellers that I can loan. If you want to fly down to Oxnard, California. You could leave the same day with your choice of three different (I)O-360 propellers.
However, there is a real risk if you want to borrow the MTV-12-B/183-59b 3 blade MT Propeller. You might not want to give it back to me.
Or, I can ship you one of my 2 blade propellers when you expect to ship me your 2 blade propeller.

Regards,
Jim Ayers

[RVjim]

Originally Posted by Brian Vickers

Jim,
I am thinking of using a fixed pitch MT on my simple, light weight O320 RV4, currently in the finishing stages of construction. I live in the northwest US. The rain has me desiring the metal edged MT. Plus, it would be interesting to try something different. I'm concerned about spending so much money and possibly ending up with a prop that is pitched too far on either end of the RPM spectrum. Do you have any experience with a set-up like I'm describing?

Sincerely,

Hi Brian,

I've had 5 different fixed pitch propellers on my O-290 powered RV-3 over the years. I understand what you are saying very well.

The standard MT fixed pitch, MT 170 R 185-3E, propeller for the (I)O-320 powered tandem RV should be very close to, if not exactly, what you need.

MT Propeller has an excellent engineering department. And the company, MT Propeller, stands behind their product. If there were a mismatch between your O-320 RV-4 and their fixed pitch propeller, I have no doubt that MT Propeller would resolve it in a reasonable manner.

Regards,
Jim Ayers

[RVjim]

Originally Posted by hydroguy2

I'll be in Hemet next month. What time should I come by? just kidding my -7 doesn't even have a motor yet.

Have you done any testing or gotten any numbers on your 6A. I know of a couple of guys(-7a , -8a) who say their Aluminum MT 2blades are faster than the BA it replaced, but I didn't get their numbers.

I'm still trying to figure out my RV-6A. I flew it to Oshkosh and back this year. I felt it was a real slug with only a 150 KTAS cruise. Then i go up to get some cylinder head temperature comparison data and I get a solid 160 KTAS cruise. I also had a solid 160 KTAS cruise before I left for Oshkosh.

I know what I changed. I just can't believe it made that much difference. I will try to check it out again Friday.

Then I can work on a MTV-12-B/183-59b vs MTV-15-B/183-402 comparison.

Regards,
Jim Ayers

[Russ McCutcheon]

Hi Jim,

I said it was neglected, not at all the fault of MT, he had let it go 10 years and 300+ hours, I thought I could fly it through the summer and then send it in, wrong! All the grease had dried up and hosed the bearings hub and the works, I became aware of a problem when one of the pitch blacks broke on climb out causing one blade to be uncontrolled, this caused a reasonably strong vibration. The work MT USA did was great but it was put on the back burner too many times and too many excuses, so in the end I got a nice prop but the service was not stellar! After they had my prop for about 6 to 8 weeks I had to move my plane and they did send me a prop and told me to fly it wile they had mine but there was no spinner so I flew it for 4 months with no spinner, the loan was nice but it also gave them reason to just keep putting my prop back and back and back tell I finally had had enough and told them it was time they got to my prop, they where or are very under staffed, I would think if you continually have a 6 month back log you should start training more help.

The prop has been in three shops first was American Propeller where they did it no favors at all, it came back slinging grease everywhere and then slinging Teflon plumbers tape that got all wound up around the hub and the paint was peeling off, all in ten hours and it took them 4 months to do the O/H!

The prop then immediately went to MT in Germany where they corrected everything in 6 weeks for free. This was actually good service in my opinion, so MT deserves credit for that.

After all this I think the owner could not bear sending it off again so he put it off way to long.

Then I sent it in to MT USA for the service I told you about.

I am just trying to feel out what?s out there for service, I want to send my prop in to a shop on the west coast and get it back in 3or 4 weeks done right, I think that?s reasonable. Maybe you get the service I was not getting from MT USA, maybe my prop was being put on the back burner in favor of service they where giving there shops like you and as such I might get the service I should get by using you or a shop like you in the future.

Russ

[randylervold]

Originally Posted by pvansrv3

Landing is drastically different. The plane is a brick with the throttle closed in the pattern, you have to keep 2000 rpm to make a normal gliding pattern approach. I think there is such a great percentage of airplane in the propwash, and the prop is such a fine windmill sucking energy from the air that the braking effect on a light airplane is enormous. We leave the prop governor set at 2100 rpm and leave power in on approach. You can easily do a go around at that prop setting since the plane is light and powerful.
Peter

Peter,
You might consider looking into adjusting the fine pitch stop and make it a couple of degrees courser. That works on all the Hartzell's and Whirl Winds I've tried and makes for a more reasonable approach when on an RV. Perhaps Jim Ayers can let us know if it is indeed adjustable on your prop. Call me to further discussion if you like.

[RVjim]

Originally Posted by Russ McCutcheon

Hi Jim,

(Stuff Cut)

I am just trying to feel out what?s out there for service, I want to send my prop in to a shop on the west coast and get it back in 3or 4 weeks done right, I think that?s reasonable. Maybe you get the service I was not getting from MT USA, maybe my prop was being put on the back burner in favor of service they where giving there shops like you and as such I might get the service I should get by using you or a shop like you in the future.

Russ

Your suggestion that my companies propeller overhauls are placed ahead of MT Propeller USA's other customers is inappropriate.
As far as I know, MT Propeller USA operates on a "first in, first out" system. The propeller assembly is split into two process lines. One line for the propeller hub, and another line for the propeller blades. When both lines have been completed, the propeller is packed and shipped.

With normal UPS Ground delivery, it would take me about 4 weeks from the time I receive the propeller to complete an overhaul.

It normally takes about two weeks for MT Propeller USA to inspect and overhaul the propeller parts, once they have been started into the process. I have found there is a seasonal backlog of overhauls (especially at the end of the flying season). This backlog can be as much as 6 weeks. Not everyone knows to ask.

My agreement with MT Propeller in Germany allows me to have information about how MT Propeller USA is supposed to operate. I have used this information to be able to work better with MT Propeller USA's system. Basically, to improve my companies working relationship with MT Propeller USA.

I am expecting the return of an overhauled propeller from MT Propeller USA today. It has taken 6 weeks since I received it from the customer. One week was due to my shop. Apparently another week was used MT Propeller USA due to the unusual size of the propeller hub, since this was an early CS propeller from a motor glider.

Regards,
Jim Ayers

[Russ McCutcheon]

Jim,

I absolutely did not mean to offend with my observations. And I have first hand knowledge that wile first in first out at MT USA might and should be the norm it is not always the case, When I confronted them about putting my prop on the back burner they admitted they had done that very thing several times and would get it on the front burner straight away and they did. I literally have there confection that they put other work ahead of mine several times.

Now this past work was no normal O/H and I know they could not have done it in 4 weeks because they had to order in a hub and other custom parts from Germany, they needed about 8 to 10 weeks if they had kept it in play.

I was not trying to implicate you in any wrong doing at all, you have no control over how MT processes orders, I was just speculating that shops like yours that regularly do busyness with them and have a good relationship with them might get exceptional service, there?s nothing wrong with that and you should strive for it in order to service your customers the best you can.

Russ