NSI vs Eggenfellner

[gmcjetpilot]

Originally Posted by rv6ejguy

I was looking at my friend's new RV7A with an O-360 Lyc clone installed. When I asked him what his EGT spread was with his new, better, revised intake, he said 180F. Simple baffle adjustment

Originally Posted by rv6ejguy

The big thing with the EJ Subes is there is no need for aftermarket cranks, cases, heads etc. because there is no history of problems with the major assemblies. They don't break cranks or suffer from cracked heads or barrels, spalled cams etc. True, product improvements and refinement, but no wholesale changes because the foundation is sound. If you think those 50 manufactures (all building for Sube) will support your engine for the next X years, great. You could always switch to a Lycoming because they will still be making them 50 years from now.

Originally Posted by rv6ejguy

In about 90 days, Fuji builds more engines than Lyc has built in its entire existence. Quality not quantity

Originally Posted by Build9A

Good post George. I'm a lycoming owner and appreciate the info. At least someone appreciates me

Really I was just answering a question no need too defend your fine choice in propulsion system.
Me-thinks-Ye Doth Protest Too Much.
Cheers George

[rv8ch]

Originally Posted by George

Uhaaaaaa, I know, I know: (lots of cool stuff deleted)

But George, can you make one phone call, and get a complete package with *all* this stuff delivered in/on your engine, and when it arrives, have the engine running on the airframe within a couple of hours?

[gmcjetpilot]

Originally Posted by rv8ch

But George, can you make one phone call, and get a complete package with *all* this stuff delivered in/on your engine, and when it arrives, have the engine running on the airframe within a couple of hours?

Couple of hours, One phone call! Yippeeee! Time to deal with most anything I touch regarding an airplane usually can be measured more by a calendar than a watch; you over estimate my skills.

As far as one call, you could call Van and get engine, prop and firewall kits for those who don't want to scrounge. ONE CALL! A Lyc with a carb, mags and Sench fixed pitch prop is about as simple and quick as you can get.

All the time spent getting ready to add extra system support stuff: Extra battery, Liquid Cooling, extra fuel system items to the airframe for the Eggy, balances out. http://www.rv8.ch/index.php?topic=engines

That instant gratification of seeing the "package" go from box to firewall is no doubt cool. Still I doubt that there is a large overall timesavings in the total project, just my opinion. Like a glue-it-together composite airplane, they look like a plane in the box but still take as long or longer to build than say a RV. Everything takes time. Just looking at your great sight you have what appears some cool modifications, which look far from plug and play, but you are obviously a perfectionist who does nice work.

BTW, Your pretty RV sure looks nice. George

[777shotgun]

Okay, once again thanks for all of the input. Ya got me leaning back toward Eggenfellner. One last thing though, I seem to remember reading in a post somewhere that the Egg sube requires you to mount the fuel pumps on the cockpit side of the firewall (kind of hard to call it a firewall anymore) in order to prevent vapor lock ???? Is that right ? or is that only the case in certain exotic installations ? And what about the choice of using mogas ? Or is everyone using 100LL ???

And for all you non believers out there (I believe you are refered to as Lycosaurs) up until very recently I too thought just like you. Being a military trained aviator whenever I heard about anyone running a car engine in an aircraft I thought they were just whack jobs asking for trouble. I went to the Eggenfellner website just to see what all the fuss was about and after reading just two pages I kind of saw the light, I mean it just makes sense. Especially moneywise since my plan was to buy a brand new Lycoming. Back when I lived in Colorado Springs I remember getting up early one winter morning (when the OAT was hovering around -12 degrees F) starting my ex-wife's subaru Justy which had been parked outside all night and driving to the Peterson AFB Aero Club early just because I knew I was going to need to PREHEAT the 172 I was going to be flying......nuff said ????

[rv6ejguy]

Originally Posted by gmcjetpilot

Really I was just answering a question no need too defend your fine choice in propulsion system.
Me-thinks-Ye Doth Protest Too Much.
Cheers George

Perhaps I doth protest too much...

Well your post did make me laugh George and I do read and appreciate and usually agree with your fine comments and suggestions to others on flying, training IFR etc. in other sections here. You are certainly a wealth of knowledge on these subjects and much more experienced than I on these matters. We all know you like Lycs but this is the Alternative Engines Section and interjecting into here with comments like quantity not quality is just likely to incite people like me to respond.

Since when was the quality of Subaru engines in question? I must have missed that. The Sube has a forged crank with rolled fillets OE just like a Lyc. except that their quality control is better, explaining why the don't break. The Sube has forged rods, great metallurgy and proper heat treatment of its CAD engines. Fuji Heavy Industries is not comprised of a bunch of fools I don't think and most of the independent surveys of Subaru cars finds them near the top of the lists for satisfaction and reliability. Egg has dozens of Sube engines flying, not aware of one which has suffered an internal failure nor aware of any of the RAF 2000 gyros having suffered an internal failure in 100,000 flight hours. Just what are you basing this lack of quality thing on?

[rv6ejguy]

Originally Posted by 777shotgun

Okay, once again thanks for all of the input. Ya got me leaning back toward Eggenfellner. One last thing though, I seem to remember reading in a post somewhere that the Egg sube requires you to mount the fuel pumps on the cockpit side of the firewall (kind of hard to call it a firewall anymore) in order to prevent vapor lock ???? Is that right ? or is that only the case in certain exotic installations ? And what about the choice of using mogas ? Or is everyone using 100LL ???

Even the Lyc RV has the boost pump mounted in the cockpit along with the fuel lines and selector so if something were to fracture...


Mounting the EFI pumps inside may actually be safer away from ignition sources like the exhaust and may help to avoid heat soaking pumps which can lead to vapor lock. Egg has a pretty proven setup which I wouldn't screw with here. Egg flyers are using both Mogas and 100LL. 100LL users often add a bit of Decalin TCP to scavenge the lead. I'd high recommend you join the Egg Yahoo group as all your questions will be answred by either very enthusiastic Egg flyers or Jan himself. It's one of the best groups of its kind.

You might want to review other past pasts (or you may not) here in this alternative engines section. Bottom line on most Sube installations: they are a bit heavier than an O-360, slightly slower in top speed it would appear, slightly more expensive and they burn a bit more fuel at high power settings when operating in open loop mode. Other than these things, they offer all the advantages you are already aware of. I'm sure you'll enjoy flying your RV with either engine choice.

[Peter Costick]

The original post referred to some problems fitting the engine, if that came from the egg message board in recent days then you may have been looking at my questions. The answers to which are best summed up as RTFM (read the manual...). But since I work in IT I tend not to read manuals if it can be avoided

Anyway I fitted my engine, working alone, without too much trouble, and I resolved the small issue I had quickly by posting a question and receiving a very swift reply from Jan and others in the Egg community (which really is what the Egg board has become).

If you are referring to Brian Meyettes build site then yes Brian has identified a few things which are issues to him, he seems to be a details person and he isn't backward in coming forward with his views. I often use Brians site for reference and find it useful. But the key is that Jan actually has a link to Brians site on his web. So no attempts are being made by Jan to cover things up and make them seem what they aren't.

Jan Eggenfellners product isn't perfect, but it is real

Peter

[Rotary10-RV]

[quote=gmcjetpilot]Uhaaaaaa, I know, I know:
[indent]-Advanced Roller Cam, new roller tappet and cam design,
Wow doing what auto engines have been doing for 40 years!

-New electronic ignition (P/E-mag, LS -III, Electroair), new self-pwr-ed EI
Wow! see first item. BTW Subarus have come this way for 20 years.

-Piston Cooling Nozzles & Camshaft Lubricating Nozzles, improved lubrication
Zowie, I believe this was first done by Buggati in about 1921.

-New Accessories available: Prop Gov (MT), Fuel Injection (Precision Airmotive, Airflow perf)
Not even Lyc parts! How come there's a market?

-New Lycoming engine model AEIO-390-X (210HP engine), new model
More zowie, add more cubes to make more power theres a new one! BTW the new 4 cylinders have just been added to the Lyc crankshaft recall.

-Wide range of aftermarket exhaust: 4 into 1/cross-over/ 4 into 4
You have got to be kidding this is so obvious that it almost criminal that it has taken this long. (not caused by Lyc but rather the FAA)


-Carbon Fiber oil sump, lightweight component
Possibly the first truly new component, but why still route the intake thru the thing?

-2 new part manufactures: ECI and Superior
The only thing pushing Lyc to release anything new themselves.

George Lycs are a decent engine. After 50 years of production, true innovations are very few. Im not even going to use a Subaru, but in honest analysis I find it a better engine than a Lycoming on every count. THIS DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT WILL BE BETTER IN AN AIRCRAFT. That depends on how well it is setup for aircraft. Eggenfellners package is a good one and even the most mechanically challenged (who are capable of building an RV) should have no problems with it.

Bill Jepson
Rotary10-RV

[acent05]

Just put deposit on RV-7 with Egg 4cyl (0 Total Time) and MT composite 3 blade prop (150 hrs. TT) I am converting to IO 360 and constant speed and would like to move this whole firewall forward package if you are interested.

[rvsxer]

Originally Posted by rv6ejguy

I was looking at my friend's new RV7A with an O-360 Lyc clone installed. When I asked him what his EGT spread was with his new, better, revised intake, he said 180F. About the same as my other friend with a stock O-360 at 200 degrees. Same problem on these two Lycs- 4 one cylinder engines flying in close formation - different AFRs in each cylinder.

EGT spread means nothing. As long as they peak together, as they should with flow-balanced cylinders and nozzles you are good to go. Don't take my word for it, though. Every article I've read on the subject (Aviation Consumer, EAA Sport Aviation, etc.) says just that...