NSI vs Eggenfellner

777shotgun · #1 07-12-2005, 06:45 PM

Howdy Rvatrs,
I am comtemplating a subaru engine. Who is better NSI or Eggenfellner and why ? From the looks of their website www.nsiaero.com NSI appears to be more "plug and play" friendly. They even supply a cowling. Also NSI is less expensive primarily because Egg is now only selling the H6 engine. From the looks of Eggenfellner user group there seems to be a great deal of strife in mounting the engine to the aircraft. Additionally after visiting several individual builders websites it appears like there have been some real delivery issues with the Egg product i.e. not getting the engine when promised and given unfriendly customer service. Any OBJECTIVE information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Randy

Rotary10-RV · #2 07-13-2005, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 777shotgun

Howdy Rvatrs,
I am comtemplating a subaru engine. Who is better NSI or Eggenfellner and why ? From the looks of their website www.nsiaero.com NSI appears to be more "plug and play" friendly. They even supply a cowling. Also NSI is less expensive primarily because Egg is now only selling the H6 engine. From the looks of Eggenfellner user group there seems to be a great deal of strife in mounting the engine to the aircraft. Additionally after visiting several individual builders websites it appears like there have been some real delivery issues with the Egg product i.e. not getting the engine when promised and given unfriendly customer service. Any OBJECTIVE information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Randy

Randy, I think you got this one totally BACKWARD. Eggenfellner is the ONLY company delivering a on-time trouble free product. They don't supply the cowl as you use the RV-cowl! I don't have a Egg Subaru, nor do I plan to, but they are easily the class of the field in Subaru conversions. A friend recently received his engine for his RV-9 and it looks very nice. Eggenfellner will also sell you a new 4 cylinder, and recently had a few single cam engines for less money. The Eggenfellner engines bolt up as they use a modified Vans engine mount. I have seen the product, the RV-9 has the single cam 4 cylinder engine and looks great. Tom Moore who is on the web site (one of the first 6 cylinders) is in my EAA chapter (EAA 663 Livermore) and flew the plane IFR from Oregon to show it at a chapter meeting. He has had very few problems. He replaced a faulty EFI fuel pressure regulator early on and that is about it. I believe he is past the 100 hour make on his aircraft.
Bill Jepson VP EAA 663 Livermore

rv8ch · #3 07-13-2005, 01:03 AM

I spent several months investigating Subaru engine providers. The NSI website looks good, but I swear I could not get in contact with anyone but the receptionist at NSI to ask some very basic questions. I sent E-mail, postal mail, faxes, and of course telephoned them many times. Never could get the questions answered. NSI may have a fine product, but I figured if they are not available during the sales cycle, what will happen after they have my money?

On the other hand, if you call Jan Eggenfellner, or send an E-mail, you'll get him, the top dog, on the phone 9 times out of 10. This means a lot to me, since I'm not in the same country as the engine supplier. I needed to know they will be there if I have a problem or question. Eggenfellner is there.

Another thing that sold me on Eggenfellner over the others is that he does not open the engine, and attempt to "hop it up" or "improve" it. He understands that Japanese six-sigma manufacturing can't be beat, so he concentrates his energy on the engineering of the adaption of the engine to the various airframes.

I could go on and on, but the best thing for you to do would be to visit them both at Oshkosh. Eggenfellner will have several flying customer RVs at the show for you to look at. Not sure about the others.

rv6ejguy · #4 07-13-2005, 09:43 AM

If you follow the EGG, NSI, Crossflow users group several NSI customers are STILL waiting for their ordered engines which they were promised months ago. NSI does not have a good record returning calls and their website has remained virtually unchanged for about 2 years now, complete with known erroneous fuel flow and hp numbers. I think if you contact EGG and NSI, you will see very quickly who has real customer support. There are many more EGGs flying in RVs than any other Sube conversion and he has a real presence at all the big shows.

777shotgun · #5 07-13-2005, 09:54 AM

Guys,
Thanks very much for your insight. My primary concern with the Egg engine came from reading a builders diary http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm click on his engine tab and read on. This guy got his engine (finally) in April and just now got it on the airplane. Brian is WAY WAY more mechanical than I could ever hope to be and this gives me some cause for concern since I really don't want to feel his pain. Perhaps his experience is just an isolated instance but in his post he makes reference to other builders also waiting around for an engine. NSI now claims to have a facility in Arlington WA. I plan to visit both vendors prior to OSH since I won't be able to attend this year. None the less thanks very much for your input.

Randy

DGlaeser · #6 07-13-2005, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 777shotgun

Guys,
Thanks very much for your insight. My primary concern with the Egg engine came from reading a builders diary http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm click on his engine tab and read on. This guy got his engine (finally) in April and just now got it on the airplane. Brian is WAY WAY more mechanical than I could ever hope to be and this gives me some cause for concern since I really don't want to feel his pain. Perhaps his experience is just an isolated instance but in his post he makes reference to other builders also waiting around for an engine. NSI now claims to have a facility in Arlington WA. I plan to visit both vendors prior to OSH since I won't be able to attend this year. None the less thanks very much for your input.

Randy

Brian is using a supercharged XTI engine, of which only a few have been sold so far because of development work being done on the intercooler required. Being one of the first for something like this will always carry risks of delays. Brian has recently volunteered to update and maintain the installation manual that was started by Gary Newsted, so he's putting his delay time to good use.

My suggestion: get on the Eggenfeller Yahoo list (get the link from their website) and ask questions. The good news: Jan's engines are always being upgraded and improved - recently a new PSRU with dual-mass flywheel (what was the last improvement on a Lycoming?). The bad news: sometimes that causes delays. We are building experimental aircraft, after all!

Dennis Glaeser
7A Empennage - plan to use an Eggenfeller Subaru

rvatornate · #7 07-13-2005, 12:39 PM

Randy,

I can relate to your concerns about not being as mechanically inclined as many who build airplanes. I clearly fall into that category. My main skill as a builder is following directions, and asking lots of questions. As far as the skill needed to set up and maintain the Egg engine, you need not worry. A single afternoon from crate to hanging on the firewall was all it took me, and 1st start occurred the next morning. Very little in the way of maintainance concerns, and support for any problems (both of which were caused by me) came quickly and eagerly. I would highly recommend Jan's engine to anyone building an RV, and will gladly answer any ?'s you may have.

Nathan Larson
N217JT RV9E 310 hours of fun!
I'll be one of the gang of builders showing off our planes/engines at Jan's Oshkosh display.

gmcjetpilot · #8 07-13-2005, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGlaeser

What was the last improvement on a Lycoming? - plan to use an Eggenfeller Subaru

Uhaaaaaa, I know, I know:

-Advanced Roller Cam, new roller tappet and cam design,
-Nickel+Carbide processed & thru hardened cylinder bores, new materials
-New electronic ignition (P/E-mag, LS -III, Electroair), new self-pwr-ed EI
-Piston Cooling Nozzles & Camshaft Lubricating Nozzles, improved lubrication
-New Accessories available: Prop Gov (MT), Fuel Injection (Precision Airmotive, Airflow perf)
-New Lycoming engine model AEIO-390-X (210HP engine), new model
-Wide range of aftermarket exhaust: 4 into 1/cross-over/ 4 into 4
-90 degree spin oil filter adapter, new accessories
-Carbon Fiber oil sump, lightweight component
-2 new part manufactures: ECI and Superior
(How many manufactures of Subaru parts are there?)

Sorry could not resist, but you brought it up. Cheers George

PS: There was a thread in these forums with many complaints about NSI, but it was removed after they threatened Doug with legal action; what does that say? I have mostly heard good about Eggy.

rv6ejguy · #9 07-13-2005, 03:22 PM

Subaru is the only manufacturers of major engine parts for their engines like cases, cranks, heads etc. however there are well over 50 companies making pistons, valves, cams, springs, gaskets, rods, valvetrain and exterior parts like turbo manifolds, intakes, TBs etc.

The big thing with the EJ Subes is there is no need for aftermarket cranks, cases , heads etc. because there is no history of problems with the major assemblies. They don't break cranks or suffer from cracked heads or barrels, spalled cams etc. They have proven to be very, very reliable in use and there are MILLIONS out there. In about 90 days, Fuji builds more engines than Lyc has built in its entire existence.

I was looking at my friend's new RV7A with an O-360 Lyc clone installed. When I asked him what his EGT spread was with his new, better, revised intake, he said 180F. About the same as my other friend with a stock O-360 at 200 degrees. Same problem on these two Lycs- 4 one cylinder engines flying in close formation - different AFRs in each cylinder.

Build9A · #10 07-13-2005, 03:31 PM

Good post George. I'm a lycoming owner and appreciate the info.

One point that I would like to make, being a first time builder, is that the lycoming is not very hard to install. I think the plug and play aspects of the sub packages are over rated. Other than the baffles the engine was the most straight forward part of my building process.

I am not trashing the eggsubs or NSI as I think they have a good package and eggsubs appear to have good support. I have a couple of friends who are installing them. I just don't think "ease of installation" should occupy a very big limb in the decision tree. IMHO jack