LS1 Based FWF from Vesta

[Supereri]

Excerpt from http://www.afaco.com/resnpub.html

"Advanced Flying Automobile (AFA) LS1 Engine Study

This paper describes the results of a study determining the feasiblity of a reciprocating automotive engine for the Advanced Flying Automobile (AFA). Reliable proven automotive engines are preferred because of the high cost of certified aircraft engines and the technological gap created over the past fifty years of manufacturing know-how. This research effort summarizes knowledge required to convert the Corvette LS1 engine for highway and flight applications. Study concludes the LS1 engine is practical for the AFA design.

SAE Paper No. 1999-01-5644

Mike Czajkowski, AFA Co."

[Rotary10-RV]

Originally Posted by Supereri

Excerpt from http://www.afaco.com/resnpub.html

"Advanced Flying Automobile (AFA) LS1 Engine Study

This paper describes the results of a study determining the feasiblity of a reciprocating automotive engine for the Advanced Flying Automobile (AFA). Reliable proven automotive engines are preferred because of the high cost of certified aircraft engines and the technological gap created over the past fifty years of manufacturing know-how. This research effort summarizes knowledge required to convert the Corvette LS1 engine for highway and flight applications. Study concludes the LS1 engine is practical for the AFA design.

SAE Paper No. 1999-01-5644

Mike Czajkowski, AFA Co."

Mike, Please note that the previous post DOES NOT dispute the engine's suitability, only the SYSTEM used to make it airworthy. The LS1 with the deep well bottom end, (like done in Chrysler Hemis), makes the crank much more stable. Few other lightweight engines would be as suitable. The problem with V8's is crank centerline. (too low) The Vesta system uses a Hi-VO chain system to offset centerline. (good thing) The V8 has both intake and exhaust routings to contend with. The Subarus usually are in the way of the radiators as well when using cheek rads.
It is always hard to fit the needed radiators inside the cowl. The higher the output the more difficult it becomes. Note that in most piston engine fighters with WC engines the radiators are remoted, ie wing or fuslage mounted. Examples; are the P51 obviously, the Spitfire with wing mounts, the P38 mounted on the tail boom. The P40 had a remote radiator on the prototype but the AAC forced them to cowl mount it which slowed the plane 10-20 mph due to drag.
This doesn't say that it cannot be done. It is a tough task to do without a big drag penalty. Most of us don't have a big fluid flow progtram to check things with and must "cut and try" to be sure everything works. My comments are there to warn the newbe's Not everyone is successful.
I certainly believe it can be done as I plan to run a WC engine myself, though of a different design.
Bill Jepson

[Supereri]

Bill,
The previous post was from me, Eric. I was simply cutting and pasting what I found on a webpage. Would be interesting to see that SAE document though.

Also note that "AFA" is short for Advanced FLying Automobile which seems to be a company seeking investors to produce a flying car.

[DrCool]

I'm new to the group and have not as yet checked out Vesta. You might be able to tell from the handle that I'm into solving cooling issues. I'm an oil cooler dealer and have designed several oil coolers and radiators, my background is with Niagara for 17 years before venturing off and starting Aero Classics only to lose it to debt and stupididty. Pacific oil coolers own Aero now, (proof that you should never trust anyone) no engineering support or quality, just can't say anything good about them so I just won't say anything at all. I'm heading off to check out the Vesta engine and I'd love to see more firewall forward packages come avialable simailar to Jan Eggenfellner's Subaru. I worked with Jan on his little rads and there's no reason I can't adapt that package to anyone elses, I'm working woth Niagara once again but have inroads to Stewart-Warner as well so I can get the job done, Happy to be in the group!...Bill Kay

[DrCool]

Can anyone please pass along a link or phone number for Vesta Inc. Propultion Systems?

[Rotary10-RV]

Originally Posted by DrCool

Can anyone please pass along a link or phone number for Vesta Inc. Propultion Systems?

DR,
Vesta's URL is WWW.VESTAV8.COM
I'm looking forward to Jasons update of the site with flying examples.
Rotary10-RV

[Got2Fly]

While I won't need to decide on th egine for a loooooong time, I definitely spend a good deal of time thinking about it. I looked at the Mistral site and they do have a very attractive sounding product until you hit the pricing page. It doesn't seem to me that the $37k for engine and PSRU is all that attractive when compared to the $34k listed for a new 540 on Vans site. Am I missing something here?

[rv8ch]

Originally Posted by DrCool

I'm new to the group and have not as yet checked out Vesta. You might be able to tell from the handle that I'm into solving cooling issues. I'm an oil cooler dealer and have designed several oil coolers and radiators, my background is with Niagara for 17 years before venturing off and starting Aero Classics ...

Hi Bill,

Great to have your expertise on the list. What is your current company name and website? I've got an eggenfellner subaru, so I probably have some of your work. Are you also working on the intercooler?

[Rotary10-RV]

Originally Posted by Got2Fly

While I won't need to decide on th egine for a loooooong time, I definitely spend a good deal of time thinking about it. I looked at the Mistral site and they do have a very attractive sounding product until you hit the pricing page. It doesn't seem to me that the $37k for engine and PSRU is all that attractive when compared to the $34k listed for a new 540 on Vans site. Am I missing something here?

Got2fly,
Yes and No. There are some things you're missing such as the Mistral is a full FWF package, (it will bolt up to a dynafocal mount), and is turbo&fi. The Mistral will outperform the FI (260HP) lyc above 8k feet and should be more economical at the same time. Take note as well that the rotary will be twice as smooth as the Lycoming. Rotary cars were among the first to come with a real rev-limiter as they were so smooth people would over rev them and not even notice. The FI Lycoming is 260HP (more) but is also 40K. The package should weigh about 100 pounds less than the 540, (based on the honest flying weight of the unit in the Piper Arrow), ready to go. The Mistral engine package is being CERTIFIED so it will obviously cost more than a basic auto conversion. All that said, Vans does offer it's builders a better buy on a typical aircraft engine. If you buy the engine from Mistral you aren't really comparing an auto conversion but rather an alternate aircraft engine choice. If you are not prone to try something different the carburator Lyc is a good choice. The price differences require you to be certain of what you want. The Mistral engine is NEW TECH but unproven to this point. If they complete their certification,(and from what I have seen I believe they will), they will be a very viable alternative to a Lyc or Conti, but won't be any cheaper. The engine will be the equivilent of a FADEC equiped Lycoming, that is single lever and auto mixture. Those are options that will add a lot of cost to the 540. The auto conversion rotary would be like Tracy Cook's Realworld solutions redrive and engine management system. Much cheaper than Mistral but you need to do most of the setup your self, and definately not certified.
Bill J
Rotary10-RV

[Rotary10-RV]

Doc, I am going to need several good heat exchangers for both water and oil. Can you post a location for contact or a web site where we might see your wares? Auto conversions do need good radiators. Can you supply water radiators with AN connections?
Bill J