If it don't look right, it ain't right

JDerrick · #1 11-17-2007, 08:33 AM

Started this morning watching sunrise & sharing a cup of coffee with my wife, aka "bucker." After the second cup of coffee, she suggested we work on the RV. Went to the "hangar," (garage), pressurized the compressor, got all the tools out, laid out the parts for the rudder skins & prepared to shoot the first line of rivets. Here, things started to fall apart. We put first line of rivets in, taped them down, flipped it over to start back-riveting. I exclaimed, "These rivets seem really tall, are you sure you got the right ones?" My beautiful bride double-checked the rivets & affirmed they were the correct length. After cautiously positioning the back-riveting plate, I proceeded to drive the first rivet. Gosh, it was proud. I hammered some more. We even noticed we were getting some deformation of the skin. We continued to drive rivets down the first line, all the while having a nagging thought something wasn't quite right. About half way down the first line, it occurred to me, we probably out to put the stiffener in before we drive the rivets!!! Now, we are going to Van's Aircraft to order a new rudder skin. The moral of the story, if things don't seem quite right, stop & figure out why!!!

John Courte · #2 11-17-2007, 09:06 AM

Amen to that. I did the exact same thing on one of the elevators. Nothing like a nice, long row of rivets in only one piece of metal. Decorative, at best.

cytoxin · #3 11-17-2007, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDerrick

Started this morning watching sunrise & sharing a cup of coffee with my wife, aka "bucker." After the second cup of coffee, she suggested we work on the RV.

sorry to hear of your misfortune but you gotta love the gal that is ready to work on the plane before you.

JDerrick · #4 11-18-2007, 07:00 PM

William
Thanks for the encouragement. Yes, I am blessed. She was helping me work on the rudder skeleton this afternoon.

JDerrick:

DarylT · #5 11-18-2007, 07:43 PM

Wow does that bring back memories. I remember when I did that I was so proud of how well things were going. Man this back riveting is the way to go. I was so into the process and then I looked over at the stiffeners laying on the other side of the bench. DOH!

Do you think we are the only ones to do this?????

This won't be the last time you do something more than once.

Phil · #6 11-18-2007, 08:06 PM

I did something very similar yesterday and caught my mistake today.

I was working on the rudder and I checked the plans. I thought they called for rivets that were 3.5. Today I went back and looked at the planes. The upside down triangles (on the plans) were for rivets that were 3's. But the right side up triangles were for 3.5's.

I had put all the rivets in.

Fortunately it was only .5 difference from VAN's plans. Come to find out, 3's were right at 1.5x.

It's a stupid mistake, but probably okay. The rivets drove fine but I'm going to call VANS just to get another opinion.

From now on, I'm going to use highlighters to mark rivet types on the plans. All the blues are 3's. All the yellows are 3.5's. All the pinks are 8's..... You get the idea.

I was lucky that I made a mistake in the right direction.

Norman CYYJ · #7 11-18-2007, 09:59 PM

I find it handy to just go along the rivet holes and write down the various sizes if there are different ones used in the same row. esp. near ribs etc.

AntiGravity · #8 11-19-2007, 12:45 AM

...because the rivet callout is often not ideal. On my pre-punched -8 there are places where the rivets are woefully inadequate (this is the usual 'way'), and other places where they are so long there'd be no chance of bucking them straight (this is less usual - actually, has only happened once).

The moral here is check the plans, and then make your own informed decision. If it doubt check the rivet specs and the material thickness. Go ahead and buck one and see how it comes out. According to several posts I've seen right here in the forums, Vans usually state, when pushed, that the rivet sizes called out in the plans are a guide only and the builder should determine the correct size for their plane...

FlyerJumper · #9 11-19-2007, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDerrick

... About half way down the first line, it occurred to me, we probably out to put the stiffener in before we drive the rivets!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarylT

... Do you think we are the only ones to do this?????

I feel your pain... been there, done that! See about halfway down this page.

claycookiemonster · #10 11-20-2007, 06:53 AM

Before I got enough courage to drill the very FIRST hole in my kit (the HS skin/spar) I spent hours reading the plans and watching the videos. Finally, packed full of tension, I began the great mission of my life: building an airiplane! Wow, I'm somebody! Only after getting about halfway down the first line of holes did I notice that they seemed kinda big. Those shiny new 3/32" clecoes sort of rattled around in those holes - I thought they might be a little looser after drilling, but not that loose. Yup: the videos start with 1/8" rivets between the spar and ribs, but the plans, and my hands, begin with the 3/32" holes between skin and spar. You can't serve two masters! I couldn't drill them smaller no matter how hard I tried. I thought momentarily about the "cheater" rivets with 3/32" head and 1/8" shaft, but I couldn't bear the thought that my very first act on the kit was to screw it up, so: new HS skin and spar. D'oh! It really sucks being human!
Clay Cook
sealing tanks