Project management for RV builds?

[rfinch]

Many RV builders are computer or software engineers, or simply computer geeks (that's a compliment in my world). I wonder if anyone has entered an RV project into one of the project management software packages like Microsoft Project, or an open source equivalent package. Would help RV newbs like myself understand the whole process and help plan ahead during the process.

[breister]

MS Project is a waste of your life - its one and only useful purpose in life is to help display your project status to upper management, and it really isn't that good at that.

There are some decent open source products to help track issues and schedules. Since a homebuilder generally has only one resource (him/herself) to allocate to the work, though, I'm thinking that a simple ticket / issue tracker would suffice. Most offer a way of prioritizing and stating dependencies, so for example there might not be any purpose in starting your panel until the basic fuselage is complete.

At the end of the day, your paper instructions could probably serve as a simple project tracking guide. Just separate all the pages, and check them off when they are complete. Much more than that and you are just adding work to an already long process.

My 2 cents worth - oh, and although I've been head of technology for a major internet company, I bought rather than built....

[Jim P]

I'd agreee that generally, MS Project is way overkill, consumes a lot of time (if you don't know how to use the tool), and is rarely updated except when the boss wants to drag some muckity-muck through the office. If you have multiple users updating the schedule, it's going to be a mess.

That said, I find the functionality for network diagrams, not the pidley gantt stuff, really can give a good visual for the order of the work flow, organized by major components into a swimlane-type diagram. I've kind of wanted to do this with the RV project, but it's somewhat low on the priority order. I've also seen this method used on major DOD aircraft depot projects and it does work well.

[ChrisL]

As an IT Project Manager for a large company, I live in MS Project every day for 3-5 large efforts. The thought of putting the build into project has crossed my mind, but I don't really think it would work well for two big reasons.

1.) There isn't a very good task list or work break down structure out there as far as I know - someone might be able to to create one out of the construction instructions, but they are fairly vague.

2.) The whole point of MS Project is so that you can perdict the phase end dates / major end date based on all the tasks and thier dependancies. But, without accurate estimates for each task, it wouldn't really be all that worth while to enter it into project. A spreadsheet would be just as good. Also, some people build a trim tab once in about 6 hours, others, well - we all know how that goes...

Now if someone did this retrospectively based on a detailed contruction log, it might be useful, but then again, it would have to be so specific (down to the level of - RV-7, QB, Tipup, IO-360, e-ignition, dynon 100/120 VFR panel, autopilot, manual aleron, electric elevator, follows construction manual word for word) to be useful for even a small amount of people.

[Loboflyer]

Holy cow....

I could go my whole engineering career (and I have many years left) without ever hearing the words "Work Breakdown Structure" and "Earned Value Management"...

MS Project can be helpful in some situations, but ask yourself one question:

If I make my hobby more like my job is it really an enjoyable hobby anymore?

To each his own, so if doing it in MS project really excites you, then go for it. But you won't ever see a Gantt chart for my hobbies, else you'll be seeing me at a 12 step program for project managers...

[RV7Guy]

Minimize computer use and you'll be flying much sooner. No need for "management software." What is needed is time management. Work smarter, not harder. A simple log will suffice fine. My DAR just flipped through it and made no comments. RV's are not science projects anymore. If you get a DAR that hasn't inspected one, I'd look for another DAR.

Pound rivets, not keys on the keyboard

[rfinch]

Hey, I hear y'all about minimizing computer time. But my query was based on the facts that

I like computers (and I think lots of RVers do)
I have some experience with MS Project and don't think it's completely a waste
It would help me understand better the sequence of tasks and their relative times
I have some time during the day when I can't build but can do background stuff like this

Yeah, it's very easy to waste hours on the internet. But doing things like reading these forums and posting some questions will pay off in better understanding and fewer mistakes.

[Jaypratt]

Originally Posted by RV7Guy

Minimize computer use and you'll be flying much sooner. No need for "management software." What is needed is time management. Work smarter, not harder. A simple log will suffice fine. My DAR just flipped through it and made no comments. RV's are not science projects anymore. If you get a DAR that hasn't inspected one, I'd look for another DAR.

Pound rivets, not keys on the keyboard

Listen to this guy!!!!!
Get to work and have the best airplane on / over the planet!!

[scard]

Originally Posted by Loboflyer

Holy cow....

I could go my whole engineering career (and I have many years left) without ever hearing the words "Work Breakdown Structure" and "Earned Value Management"...

MS Project can be helpful in some situations, but ask yourself one question:

If I make my hobby more like my job is it really an enjoyable hobby anymore?

To each his own, so if doing it in MS project really excites you, then go for it. But you won't ever see a Gantt chart for my hobbies, else you'll be seeing me at a 12 step program for project managers...

Couldn't have said it better myself. I get enough of having to BE the technical upper management and spouting "Work Breakdown Structure" enough at real work. There is no way I'm going to bring that home.
Ok, we all have the toys that we like to play with. For some, it may be MS Project and project statistics, for others... I understand.
Some people say just build it like on the plans (guilty), others are sometimes as much in it for the build process as actually flying (also guilty). Build on AND enjoy. Whatever that means to you.

[rv8eh]

Thanks for the reminder. Time to update my schedule again :-)
I'm an engineer who works or manages (or occasionally both) many concurrent projects with many external dependencies on any given project.

In 2003, I created a basic project schedule for my RV-8A in MS Project, which I use at least weekly as part of my job. I built the schedule before I committed to beginning the kit, and I refer to it approximately twice a year.

I created the schedule with:
approximate build times (thank you Sam Buchanan)
equipment costs (thank you Vans and equipment vendors)
approximate shipping, tax, duty costs, (thank you Marc DeG.)
inspection fees (thank you MD-RA)

Why I created a schedule:
This is a major purchase for me.
I can't afford to build this airplane for $100K as a lump sum. I needed to understand the probably cash flow. This led me to believe that I could afford to get started. - even to build most of the airplane, before I had to send the wife back to work...
I can probably afford to build this airplane for the cash flow I established, USING THE SCHEDULE.

+Did I get the build durations right?
Not a chance. I'm slower, dumber, and more error-prone than average - my times are not going to be average. I'm also away a lot for work.
+Do I update the schedule?
Yes, first update took an hour after I got the empennage kit.
I haven't updated it since receiving the wing kit - I've got some time before I need it again.
+Are the costs accurate?
Yes, in $CDN, which means little at the moment, as the exchange rate when I started was 0.65 and is now 1.05 or so. (I'm thinking about quickbuild fuse and an engine ASAP before the US fixes their dollar. Holy 30% Discount Batman!)

I don't think that there is any point or joy in taking the detail of the schedule down to the "cleco here" level, as it becomes wasted effort tracking - as much effort as performing the work on the kit, and doesn't provide any feedback I need. It'd be interesting to see, though.

I won't spend much time arguing about project management at work - I've lived without it, and with it, and been it, over 18 years. I prefer life with it, and being it if necessary. Lots less surprises.

I used to sound like most of the posts about schedules and WBS here, and know others who did as well.
There is a point, (if you are still complaining, you haven't reached it yet -it was pretty clear when it arrived for me) at which you begin to get some personal value out of scheduling at work; yes, and out of the WBS as well.

Yes, basic scheduling can be done in your head. No, you are not going to accurately be able to judge whether or not a change has a significant impact on a complex project without a more formal schedule than your skull.

Scheduling is like any tool we use - there are good fits and bad, correct application and misapplication, and the tool holding the tool is a part of achieving the desired result.